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Hey dakka,

A friend of mine has a very "un-orky" Ork army by which I mean he has lots of shooty units supported by a squad of Nobz and two huge squads of boyz. His Nobz are typically in a trukk and are geared with cybork armor, two power claws, a painboy and a boss pole. I play CSM Black Legion and am looking for suggestions on good ways to stop them aside from "Well keep running backwards and shooting".

Before any tactics with these are brought up: I don't have any Chaos Termies, greater or lesser demons, spawn, noise or plague marines,1k sons, raptors, preds, vindi's or dreadnoughts. Everything else in the army book I have and can field. My HQ is a demon prince though I can take a lord or sorceror.

I'll appreciate any assistance.

Uhh.

A) Who are you to determine what an orky army is? If it's orks, it's orky.

Seems like you're hamstrining yourself by not taking any of the best stuff chaos can take. I'd suggest getting those things. Also Oblit cult, ought to be able to help you out, first to knock out the trukks, then to kill the boyz.

Ragnar4 wrote:Uhh.

A) Who are you to determine what an orky army is? If it's orks, it's orky.

Seems like you're hamstrining yourself by not taking any of the best stuff chaos can take. I'd suggest getting those things. Also Oblit cult, ought to be able to help you out, first to knock out the trukks, then to kill the boyz.

Q)All the veterans we game with and the guys at the GW shop? I realize that the 5th ed stuff makes Orks better shooty units but that's not really their fluff.

So your tactical advice is to spend more money? Do you work for GW?

Lord of Slaneesh with Blessgiver Daemon Weapon. The only reason to ever use a Lord is in this very situation. It will absolutely squash them.


Also, Dreadnoughts.

I was hesitant to get a dread due to Crazed but they definitely have their place.

I tend to rely heavily on my DP for all my battles but maybe it's time to trade up for the lord...at least in this instance.

Havoks with meltaguns, big bezerker squads, or chosen with flamers/melta guns will either chew up or insta kill nobs.

I use a Daemon Prince exclusively as well (with a Sorceror at higher point games). Dont be fooled, Lords suck horribly. But the Slaneesh Daemon weapon was made for this. On charge you can potentially get 10 attacks, all power weapon attack, and Instant Kills whatever youre hitting.

This means Nobs with a Painboy get nothing, and the 2 wounds they have mean nothing.

Though definitely have some other support with you to finish off what he started, and to force klaws to hit your other units in base to base.

pick yourself up a vindi dude

I like the idea of a Vindi but my heavy support slots are filled with LR, Defiler and either Oblits or Havocs. And that is not considering the fact that he also fields a huge force of lootas w/ a Big Mek/Shok Attak Gun in the squad. I'm usually templating the lootas with the Defiler cannon and I feel like I'd be doing the same thing with the Vindi.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Durandal wrote:Havoks with meltaguns, big bezerker squads, or chosen with flamers/melta guns will either chew up or insta kill nobs.

I love my 'Zerker squads against Nobz, last time I just rolled horribly. The 5 power weapon attacks from the Champ is usually great. I tend to stack my chosen with HBs and TL Bolters but I think the x4 meltaguns is the way to go.

Most Big Mek armies are shooty. "Shooty" is not "Un-Orky." If it was, all Lootas, Tankbustas, Buggies, Big Gunz, SAGs, and Gunwagons would be un-orky.

Beat Nobz with Str8 weapons such as missile launchers. Nobs get wounded on a 2, they get no armor save (unless they're Mega), they are insta-killed (your Str doubles their T), and they get no FNP (same reason).

D'Ork wrote:Most Big Mek armies are shooty. "Shooty" is not "Un-Orky." If it was, all Lootas, Tankbustas, Buggies, Big Gunz, SAGs, and Gunwagons would be un-orky.

Beat Nobz with Str8 weapons such as missile launchers. Nobs get wounded on a 2, they get no armor save (unless they're Mega), they are insta-killed (your Str doubles their T), and they get no FNP (same reason).

Fair enough on the shootiness aspect. I figured that comment would get some flaming and it has. Moving on...

Yes, ML is devastating against Nobz...except that as I said they have cybork armor which gives them that damnable 5+ Inv save. It's not much but all it takes is one success. I also tend to use the ML vs his boyz masses as they can take down 3 or 4 boys a shot. I may change up that tactic though, as you've given me something to consider. Thanks.

Sounds like you're advocating not using power weapons on termies because they might make their +5 invulnerable save . . .
I'd suggest large blasts against da boyz, you'll hit more

Best things that usually end up killing me are bezerkers and dp's with los. Khorne's deamon weapon can really put the hurt on me too. Can't advocate for the others since i haven't had to deal with them.

Shoot the trukk with any anti-tank wep ya got, then just wear em down with any high str wep ya got. Hopefully when they get into ccw with you they'll be understrength.

Beerforthebeergod wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:Uhh.

A) Who are you to determine what an orky army is? If it's orks, it's orky.

Seems like you're hamstrining yourself by not taking any of the best stuff chaos can take. I'd suggest getting those things. Also Oblit cult, ought to be able to help you out, first to knock out the trukks, then to kill the boyz.

Q)All the veterans we game with and the guys at the GW shop? I realize that the 5th ed stuff makes Orks better shooty units but that's not really their fluff.

So your tactical advice is to spend more money? Do you work for GW?

Hey, you're the guy saying "My opponent's got a fully automatic rifle that he's bringing to a gunfight... I've got a roll of duct-tape, a rusty butter knife, a few toothpicks and a doorknob assembly... anybody got any ideas?"

I'm just suggesting you get something that reasonably resembles a gun.

If you're worried about playing a fun game and rolling some dice, take what you want. If you're worried about winning, you need to be willing to spend a little bit of money, or try to get creative to put something on the field that's competitive. For a relatively cheap purchase, or an even cheaper kit-bash, Obliterator cults can take a lot of lists up a couple of notches. Other people have suggested vindi's dreadnaughts, havoks with melta... all of which you don't own.

LOL at working for GW.

Beerforthebeergod wrote:
Yes, ML is devastating against Nobz...except that as I said they have cybork armor which gives them that damnable 5+ Inv save. It's not much but all it takes is one success. I also tend to use the ML vs his boyz masses as they can take down 3 or 4 boys a shot. I may change up that tactic though, as you've given me something to consider. Thanks.

Whether or not you should shoot frag at the boyz or krak at the nobz depends on how much your opponent relies on the nobz to win. The beauty of MLs is that you can make that decision mid-game (as opposed to, say, a LC).

5+ invuln is a pain. At least you opponent is forced to spend a lot of point on them.

As far as the arguments that the army is "un-orky" people tend to have very limited view on armies. Orks and Tyranids have always had a shooty element to them since second edition, and Ork Nobz are grown all over the place.

It's generally excepted now, that if it is an army fielded out of a codex, then it is following the correct fluff.

You have plenty of toys to deal with Nob Bikerz in a Chaos List. You can field a Sorcerer with Lash, push the Nobz back and bunch them together, then drop pie from your defiler and plasma cannons from yout oblitorators (which you should be fielding at least 4 of), put enough pressure on the bikers in the shooting phase, then counter assault with Chaos Terminators and a Chaos Lord with a Deamon Weapon out of the dedicated Land Raider you purchased for the Terminators. After all of that, you should be able to deal with the rest of his army.

Slaanesh lord with deamonweapon is probably one of the best units for killing nobs.

Ragnar4 wrote:

Beerforthebeergod wrote:

Ragnar4 wrote:Uhh.

A) Who are you to determine what an orky army is? If it's orks, it's orky.

Seems like you're hamstrining yourself by not taking any of the best stuff chaos can take. I'd suggest getting those things. Also Oblit cult, ought to be able to help you out, first to knock out the trukks, then to kill the boyz.

Q)All the veterans we game with and the guys at the GW shop? I realize that the 5th ed stuff makes Orks better shooty units but that's not really their fluff.

So your tactical advice is to spend more money? Do you work for GW?

Hey, you're the guy saying "My opponent's got a fully automatic rifle that he's bringing to a gunfight... I've got a roll of duct-tape, a rusty butter knife, a few toothpicks and a doorknob assembly... anybody got any ideas?"

I'm just suggesting you get something that reasonably resembles a gun.

If you're worried about playing a fun game and rolling some dice, take what you want. If you're worried about winning, you need to be willing to spend a little bit of money, or try to get creative to put something on the field that's competitive. For a relatively cheap purchase, or an even cheaper kit-bash, Obliterator cults can take a lot of lists up a couple of notches. Other people have suggested vindi's dreadnaughts, havoks with melta... all of which you don't own.

LOL at working for GW.

I first want to respond by saying that ,yes, other people suggested I use things I did not have but mostly after they gave me advice with units I do own. I certainly never thought my army was a collection of odds and ends versus an automatic rifle but I'm glad to know I wasted nearly $300 bucks.
On that note..."Hamstringing myself" so far has allowed me to soundly beat numerous Space Marine armies, Eldar and stand toe-to-toe with Tyranids and annihilate Chaos Demons. My one friend that plays Orks manages to beat everyone we game with-except our two Tyranid friends- and quite frankly a lot of it had to do with him cheesing things as we were getting used to 5th Edition Rules or being newbs to the game. Now that we're familiar Nobz are really the only thing he has that I need tactics for and this thread has been most helpful.

As a matter of fact I do own a havok squad and find them quite useful.

Abbaddon the despoiler OR Terminator Slaanesh lord w/ daemon weapon.
8 chaos chosen with 4 power fists.
Land Raider

Best anti-nob unit ever. 4+1d6 power attacks that cause instant death (s8 + reroll in abby's case, s4 in slaanesh lord's case) at I6.
+ 4-8 power fist attacks, you will get the charge because of the land raider.

Canonness Rory wrote:Abbaddon the despoiler OR Terminator Slaanesh lord w/ daemon weapon.
8 chaos chosen with 4 power fists.
Land Raider

Best anti-nob unit ever. 4+1d6 power attacks that cause instant death (s8 + reroll in abby's case, s4 in slaanesh lord's case) at I6.
+ 4-8 power fist attacks, you will get the charge because of the land raider.

Man, what an awesome idea. I always put my 'Zerkers in the LR and Rhinos and have my chosen infiltrate in but I think I'm going to try that. Thank you, I think we're still playing tonight so if we do I'll have a BR ready to go.