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I'm testing ideas for Horde/CC IG lists and wanted some opinions. I need to find out how to improve upon the current list I came up with. Bear with me as I have never been very good at this whole 'winning' thing, so my list-building skills are quite bad.

At 2000 points:

CCS
4 flamers
Laspistols
Carapace armour
90

They ride in one Valkyrie and decimate squads with the flamers and assault the remnants if they have to.

Lord Commissar
70

Ogryn Squad
+2 ogryns
Chimera w/ 2 heavy flamers and extra armour
280

The Lord Commissar and the Ogryns ride in the chimera as a counterattack/relief unit. The plan is to have them move in time with the valkyries so they can mop up the mess after the flamers have fired.

PCS
Laspistols
Chenkov
80

Bought purely for SITNW, they can come in to support in CC.

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Power Weapon
Commissar
105

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Power Weapon
70

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Power Weapon
70

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Combined squad. 50 guardsmen with 5 meltaguns, 3 power weapons and a commissar. They are the second wave, following the conscripts for some cover saves, trying to kill vehicles as quickly as possible before they cause too much damage.

Conscripts
+30 men
SITNW
275

The first wave of infantry. A never-ending meatshield to provide a much-needed portable cover save to the otherwise defenseless combined squads. They will assault enemy infantry if they survive.

PCS
Laspistols
30

Like Chenkov's unit, they will be in for support. I wouldn't have taken them if I didn't have to.

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
60

The third wave of infantry, cleans up the mess the first combined squad left behind.

Heavy Weapons Squad
Mortars
60

Heavy Weapons Squad
Mortars
60

Heavy Weapons Squad
Mortars
60

Just for some pieplate fun. There are bound to be some hits on infantry and pinning is very useful for the slow infantry advance.

Veteran Squad
7 shotguns
3 flamers
85

They take the second valkyrie and do the same thing as the CCS.

Valkyrie Squadron
1 VAC
MRP
130

Valkyrie Squadron
1 VAC
MRP
130

The only reason I started IG in the first place. With pieplates the size of the small child as defensive weapons they should be quite lovely when supporting flamers.


C&C is appreciated, please be as harsh as you want as long as it helps me to create a better list.

Send in the next wave is way too expensive for a cover save. 4+ cover is not that great, and it certainly isn't worth the hundreds of points you are putting into it. Especially when you can find cover on the map, you have a 5+ armor save (which means you only are getting 17% more survivability with the 4+ cover), and send in the next wave must enter from your table edge, so unless you are sitting inside 6" of your table edge, your conscripts will have to spend a turn, or two, getting to the front with the rest of your army. Not to mention the fact that most of your troops look like melee anyway, so cover is out... you should buy grenadiers for 30pts, would give you 4+ armor that you can use in CC and will stay will you, and is a hell of a lot cheaper.

You seem like you have a lot of close combat troops. I think you may be neglecting the fact that we are just human, and not a match for ANY other race in melee. Any squad you send into melee (or melta for that matter) range is a dead/useless squad. I've sat there and cried as 20 guard died to 2 nobs.

You have a lot of infantry, and no 14 armor in the whole list.

IG have infantry for dying, and tanks for winning. Play your strengths, compensate for weaknesses. Your strength is armor, your weakness is melee. You seem to have written a list that might work in a different army.

If you want to melee, you should have Creed in your army, so you can give the "For the Honour of Cadia!!"

Where are your vox? It's only 20pts and you would double the effectiveness of your army, regardless of what is going on.

I agree with Lt Lathrop that conscripts aren't worth it, especially with SITNW. Those 50 conscripts cost you as much as a 35-man platoon loaded for bear. Guess which will hurt the enemy more? I say scrap them for more infantry. Keep Chenkov or replace him with a regular comissar in an infantry squad, your call.

Offensive squads in Valkyries are a great idea, one quibble about the execution: You've given your BS4 units flamers. Why not use valkyries as the way to get meltaguns (on the CCS and veterans) to the enemy lines, and give the flamers to your footsloggers? If you still like the idea of airborne flamethrowers, which are pretty damn cool, at least give the job to your currently unarmed PCS, which is scoring, and that'll free up your CCS for giving orders, and maybe using longer-range weapons.

Lord Comissar and mortar squads are not that great in my book, but you've got the right kind of list to use them in. I think infantry heavy guard is wicked, so kudos and good luck (but please ditch the conscripts)

Alright, have come up with a new list. This time with lots of chimeras. So scratch the Horde aspect, this is more Mech/CC.

CCS
Straken
4 Meltaguns
Laspistols
2 Body guards
185

They ride in one Valkyrie, next to the PCS. Drop down and melta before charging.

Ogryn Squad
6 Ogryns
Chimera w/ 2 Heavy Flamers
305

Ogryn Squad
6 Ogryns
Chimera w/ 2 Heavy Flamers
305

They ride behind the Valks/Vendettas in support of Straken and the PCS.

Ratling Squad
+2 Ratlings
50

I have found ratlings to be amazingly useful when placed properly. They will help pin enemy units and maybe even get a few shots at lighter vehicles.

PCS
4 Meltaguns
Laspistols
70

They ride in the other Valkyrie, same idea as the CCS.

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Chimera
115

Infantry Squad
Meltagun
Chimera
115

They are going to do drive-bys with meltas.

Valkyrie Squadron
2 Valkyries
MRPs
260

Transport for the command squads.

Vendetta Squadron
2 Vendettas
260

Long range AT. They are going to outflank and bust some side armour before they get shot down.

Leman Russ Squadron
2 LRBTs
Hull Lascannons
330

Some AV 14 armour as suggested. Not very much, but people seem to view Russes with religious fear in my GW, so it should draw some fire away from the Valks/Vendettas.

Total: 1995

I believe your list is illegal, as you only have 1 troop choice. Since it seems like you significantly downsized the amount of infantry you have in your army, in favor of more mech and ogryns, might I suggest veteran squads? You don't have to bring them in platoons, and they have more options for fighting in close combat. OR consider penal legion squads, which again don't need to be taken in platoons, but are actually decient in melee. Not as good as Ogryn, but a hell of a lot less expensive. I might even recommend dropping some of your armor for penal legion squads if you really want to enter a good melee battle. Bring penal legion for melee, and vet squads for melta/flamer/otherstuff support.

Russ are great for drawing fire. Mine usually get made priority 1 by my enemies. I would really recommend if you have the heavy support slots to not put the Russ together.

Vendetta are great, 3 lascannon are beautiful. They are neigh impossible to hit (kept at 4 foot range, and flying around at top speed... most units will not be able to hit them, let alone pen armor). Great anti tank choice for people who want to use flyers as transports. Not as big of a deal having squads of the birds, since they blow up on immobilized rolls anyway.

Ogryns are great in melee, scares the piss out of my friend who plays orks. Bigger than a Nob Squad... but very much more expensive :(

Could I ask what armies you intend to be able to hit with this?

Chimeras with two heavy flamers are hardly ever a good idea. You usually have to move in order to use a heavy flamer, and since they are main weapons the Chimera can only fire one after moving.

umm... you are giving BS3 squads only one gun and assume effectiveness.

i dont think ogryns can ride in transports at all and they really arent worth points

you seem to only have 1 troops choice which is not legal.

swap your platoon for the same concept in another CCS and two vet squads.

don't put the command squads' valks together in a squad but keep the vendettas together.


Something similar with maybe more effect:

CCS
-astropath OR officer of the fleet (depends on your preference of what you do
-valk with missle pods
-4x meltaguns.
250

CCS
-valk with missle pods
-4x meltaguns.
220

Vet. squad
-2x meltas
-demolitions
-chimera
175

Vet. squad
-2x meltas
-demolitions
-chimera
175

Vet. squad
-2x meltas
-demolitions
-chimera
175

2x Vendettas
260

Leman Russ Demolisher
-Multimelta sponsons
-hull lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher
-Multimelta sponsons
-hull lascannon
Squad Total: 420

Leman Russ Punisher
-Pask
-Hull Heavy bolter
-heavy bolter lascannon
250

2x Basilisk
250

TOTAL: 2000

Same basic idea, meltas in your opponent's face.

if you use astropath you can outflank with the valk/vendetta
if you use OoF you can just deny your opponent his things

you can always try to tweak the points to add heavy flamers or drop tanks to add in more infantry

if you want more infantry you can drop the bassies and split up the demolishers to add two more troops with meltas


okay, pask in a punisher is a controversial topic but it is awesome, i wish i brought him to ard boyz finals, would have helped so damn much, i was always thinking "i could use pask in a punisher about now"

The valks/vendies, how you group them is your preference. vendies in squads is fun because its amazing anti tank in one salvo.

so depending on the mission: aniihilation, the troops go ahead on anti-tank runs against tanks that are alone while the CCS really goes after some bigger targets because they will always be able to twin link their meltas lol

demo charge is awesome to help take out swaths of heavy armor infantry.

Oh wow, lol. I had forgotten that I had deleted the vet squad without adding something in for it.

Nenya, I really appreciate the list and I will repost a version of it that is more to my playstyle.

Lt Lathrop, I intend to hit basically every army. But my opponents usually have no more than one or two pieces of AV14, even at 2000 points.

Update: Alright, the list is reconfigured. I ditched the Bassies for Straken and more meltaguns. I also downgraded the second CCS to a MoO and Mortar and replaced a chimera on the vets for a power fist. 10 Points over, but the people at my GW are usually cool with that.

CCS
Straken
Astropath
4 Meltaguns
2 Bodyguards
250

CCS
MoO
Mortar
85

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
Chimera
175

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
Chimera
175

Veteran squad
Power fist
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
135

Vendetta Squadron
2 Vendettas
260

Valkyrie Squadron
1 Valkyrie
MRPs
130

Valkyrie Squadron
1 Valkyrie
MRPs
130

Leman Russ Squadron
2 Leman Russ Demolishers
Multi-melta sponsons
Hull Lascannons
420

Leman Russ Punisher
Pask
Hull Heavy bolter
Heavy bolter sponsons
250

Total: 2010

Oddly enough, your army idea seems to have changed from a mass of bodies, with mortar support and a commissar lord, to a fairly standard veterans-in-chimera-and-valkyries list, like a lot of the people on this site favour. I'm not criticising, it's a great way to play aggressively, it's just a good example of the power of internet advice.

Given the new structure, I'd say that you shouldn't put leman russes in squadrons, they're far better as seperate units. Equally, I think a punisher is a fairly ineffective variant. A leman russ executioner with plasma sponsons is also damn killy, and costs 230 points. Melta sponsons on demolishers are not that efficient, and you have 4 melta squads already.

A powerfist on a veteran sergeant is a bit of a waste, and the master of ordnance is highly inaccurate, and looks a bit out of place in this list, consider either filling the command squad with special weapons and putting them in a valk/chimera, (you'd have the points if you tone down the leman russ upgrades) or scrapping them and taking rambo or something more agressive.

The execution of the idea doesn't matter to me. I wanted a CC list with valks. If I could do it with hordes, I would. It seems to make more sense with mech hybrid so that is how I will do it. Although I must say that DakDak helps alot. I haven't gotten as much constructive advice from any other sites.

The reason I put the power fist on the vet sgt is so that he can actually do some damage in CC. The MoO has much better accuracy when put with mortars because of the multiple barrage rule.

I am not experienced with Leman Russes, so I will take your word for the sponsons and the Punisher. I will post a revised version in a bit.

Update: I threw out the 2nd CCS, the Punisher and the power fist to get another vet squad mounted in a chimera and a russ executioner. Only 5 points over this time

CCS
Straken
Astropath
4 Meltaguns
2 Bodyguards
250

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer
175

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer
175

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
Chimera w/ Heavy Flamer
175

Veteran squad
3 Meltaguns
Shotguns
Demolitions
135

Vendetta Squadron
2 Vendettas
260

Valkyrie Squadron
1 Valkyrie
MRPs
130

Valkyrie Squadron
1 Valkyrie
MRPs
130

Leman Russ Demolisher
Hull Lascannon
180

Leman Russ
Demolisher
Hull Lascannon
180

Leman Russ Executioner
Plasma Cannon Sponsons
230

Total: 2005

Looks great to me. Maybe clear the 5 points by scrapping a bodyguard or a hull lascannon, then blow 10 points on whatever you want. Remember to use the chimeras with a hull heavy flamer, it's a lot better than a heavy bolter if you're using them agressively.