Walking Infantry

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**QuietOrkmi**

I was playing a space wolves player the other day and he used a psychic power called "Jaws of the Wolf" (I think that is what it was called) basically it demands a initiative test from infantry, monstrous creatures, bikes, and jet bikes... (noting the lack of walkers being counted)

The argument began when he tried to hit my deff dread with it... I read the section on walkers aloud, stating that walkers were unusual types of vehicles that used some of the rules for infantry (Assault, moving through terrain, running)...

The Space wolves player ruled in favor of himself, stating that walkers were also infantry merely because they used the some of the same rules... I tried to rebuke the ruling with the statement that the ork codex was updated for 5th edition and if walkers were infantry than they would have furious charge and the ability to WAAAGH! (this is because every ork, that are infantry, in the entire codex can do both)

Whose right? Is a Walker counted as Infantry because it has an initiative and uses some of the rules for infantry?

**Gwar!**

No. A Walker is a vehicle, not Infantry. JotWW cannot affect vehicles of any kind.

Next time hit him over the head with a brick, and my FAQ

**Lostboyz**

If he insists Dreads are infantry, use yours (if you have a Mek, and took it as a troops choice) to hold objectives. That would be incorrect also-but at least in your favor!

**Axyl**

Unless I'm mistaken... I'm pretty sure you can do that anyway as any unit taken as a troop choice can hold objectives regardless of unit type.

**MinMax**

Axyl wrote:Unless I'm mistaken... I'm pretty sure you can do that anyway as any unit taken as a troop choice can hold objectives regardless of unit type.

You are quite mistaken, as a matter of fact!

Only non-vehicle, units taken as a Troops may hold objectives, and only then if they don't have a special rule that prevents them from doing so (like Nurglings, or Fenrisian Wolves).

**1hadhq**

Axyl wrote:Unless I'm mistaken... I'm pretty sure you can do that anyway as any unit taken as a troop choice can hold objectives regardless of unit type.

BRB page 90:

units not able to hold objectives:

- vehicles => unit type restricted
- swarm => unit type restricted
- specifically stated in their rules ( example fenrisian wolves )

**Axyl**

Ah, ok thanks. I've had an opponent play his Ravenwing Land Speeders (Dark angels codex) as scoring before so I had just assumed. Looks like I'll know better next time.

Edit: And upon looking through the DA codex they are listed specifically as scoring units. So ignore me anyway.

**KaloranSLC**

Isn't the unit type listed in the Army List entry of your Codex? That should cease any argument.

**QuietOrkmi**

According to my opponent, it is affected by the psychic power because...

a) It can take an initiative test and therefore fail it (Thus die)

b) Uses some of the infantry rules, so therefore counts as infantry...

So in other words, my walker would count as a vehicle if he shot it with a melta-weapon and count as an infantry model if he uses this psychic power... He also cited a white dwarf battle report where the player used this psychic power on a walker and it worked...

**Tri**

QuietOrkmi wrote: He also cited a white dwarf battle report where the player used this psychic power on a walker and it worked...

Hit him with the rule book. WD makes the games up so they look cool.

**Iago**

Walker is a vehicle. It only uses Infantry rules when moving through terrain, assaulting and what not. It is still a vehicle- that acts like infantry sometimes. Let me paraphrase... a "vehicle" there.

**KaloranSLC**

Again: What does the Army List in your codex list as the unit type?

**QuietOrkmi**

Vehicle (walker)

He is stating that Walkers are both infantry and Vehicles...

**Tri**

QuietOrkmi wrote:Vehicle (walker)

He is stating that Walkers are both infantry and Vehicles...

They're not they're just vehicles that move like infantry and can fight like infantry. How can you tell? No Toughness or wounds, and it has an Armour Value not an Armour Save.

**Orkestra**

Vehicle (walker) is pretty damn clear.

It's a vehicle.

Point out that it's not an infantry model because it is a vehicle. Tell him that if he insists that it's an infantry model, you'll play it that way, but since infantry don't have Armour values, the front armour must be toughness, and the side armour must be it's wounds. The rear armour characteristic is ACTUALLY it's initiative, because that comes next in the order. it's Initiative must be it's attacks, and it's number of attacks must be it's armour save. Proceed to play the game with your modified rules, and be sure to field lots of your new, T12, 10W, I10 monstrosities.

**QuietOrkmi**

very nice... but it would be T12 W12 and I10 with only 2 attacks (+2 for extra arms) and then a 3+ armor save... hmmm... it would be an infantry troop choice but I think it is missing a LD value... heh

**Orkestra**

2 attacks? Oh, that's a problem ain't it. I mean, considering s8 power fists can't even wound it... Yeah, big issue.

But seriously. If it's called a vehicle, you can't use a power on it that specifies it can't target vehicles. It just plain old doesn't work.

**Drunkspleen**

Orkestra wrote:2 attacks? Oh, that's a problem ain't it. I mean, considering s8 power fists can't even wound it... Yeah, big issue.

Actually nothing could wound it, since T12 doesn't appear on the To-Wound chart, Although we also know T can't be above 10, so this is shaky.

My approach would be (assuming you are playing orks) put your walkers in trukks or battlewagons, they are infantry so they can ride in other vehicles (nothing says vehicles can't ride in other vehicles, the only rule about this is that infantry CAN do it, so if something is both infantry and whatever other unit type it could still ride in a transport) and there's absolutely no basis for him saying JotWW effects those transport vehicles. He will hopefully change his mind either a) when he realises it's stupid to have dreads riding around in rhinos or b) when you disembark your deff dread, declare a waaagh, run then assault (due to the fleet you now have) and mess his face up.

Seriously he's being silly, and if he's going to claim walkers are infantry, just exploit that for all it's worth since it sounds like he won't listen to reason.

**RustyKnight**

The White Dwarf article he's referencing displays a Rune Priest splatting a Greater Unclean One of Nurgle (a big ol' Eternal Warrior monstrous creature).

The plethora of "remove units) effects in Codex: Spehss Puppehs worries me. How long is it till we have Indomitable Warriors that are immune to effects that remove from table? Then how long is it till we have Disintegration effects?

**QuietOrkmi**

chuckled a bit at the Deff Dread riding in a transport after all unless stated otherwise each infantry model takes up one transport space...

Too bad I can only have a squadron of 3 kill kans... otherwise I would be fitting 9 of them + 2 deff dreads in a single Trukk...