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Ok its clear by raw the skyclaws can not be lead by a wolf guard, since they are not listed in the squads that can have a wolf guard leader.

Now my real question is this....

Is this intentional, or was it an error to leave them off the list.

Now fluff wise we could go back to the third edition codex with all the hate jump packs feet on the ground stuff. However we could just as easy go to the second edition codex and find none of that.

Now the next option is to look at the rules,
wolf guard with a jump pack are in the mid 40's points wise, similar models from other marine lists come in much cheaper ( vanguard are 30ish points each with assault after deep strike, and BA vet assault squads are in the mid 20's)

Now the vanguard have very similar options( no frost blade but much cheaper storm shields and relic blades) to the wolf guard but i feel they get a points discounts , calling them cheaper really isnt fair, because there is no way to make them troops or score.

The BA vet assault squads ( bless their little red hearts) is only about half the cost of the wolf guard, now you can't deck them out for close combat nearly as well, they still have the 4+ storm shield but they do get the option of two special weapons on top of 3 powered cc options or combi weapons . Now once agian these guys can never be troops nor score, and you do get a death company guy with them ( for all that is worth since you are paying for him in the cost of the first 5 guys).

now the wolf guard can also take a bike ( it costs more than a normal marine biker ) the only other vet squad in the game that I could find that can ride bikes is the space marine comand squad. Each guy starting in the comand squad is about 15 points cheaper than the wolf guard on bike, they have very similar equipment options and they come with feel no pain. The wolf guard can be more than 5 guys however and can become troops if logan is taken.

Now you all must be wondering why the heck im ranting about wolf guard in a thread called skyclaws. the answer is simple The bike option and the jump pack option are overcosted for the wolf guard . I think this was done to prevent hoards of jump packing and bike rideing wolf guard units but still allow them the option to lead swiftclaw and skyclaw packs.

the idea of 2 700 point 10 man troop jump squads is really nice (mmmmm storm shields) but i just don't think thats what phil kelly had in mind, i know im trying to determine intent here a pointless effort.

But in my point of view I think the priceing of both the bike and jump show they were intended for use as squad leader upgrades and not to make wolf guard units of that type ( not that that will stop me i have a 3rd edition ba army that was really jump pack heavy needing a set of real rules) With this stated since the jump pack is an option for a wolf guard and priced really too high to be used inmass in the squad I have a feeling the skyclaws were ment to be able to have a wolf guard leader.

As i stated at the top of the post by RAW no wolf guard for skyclaws, but im was wanting to get what you guys think on the subject was this intentional or was leaveing them off the list an error.

Narlix wrote:Is this intentional, or was it an error to leave them off the list.

Unless Phil unintentionally wrote a codex, it was intentional.

Your wall of whine hurts my eyes.

Protip: Space Wolves are not Grey Vanilla Marines. There is a reason why Space Wolves have their own codex, it's because they are significantly different. Saying "Blood Angels get Veteran assault squads why cant I bawwwwwww" is not a convincing argument.

Gwar! wrote:

Narlix wrote:Is this intentional, or was it an error to leave them off the list.

Unless Phil unintentionally wrote a codex, it was intentional.

Your wall of whine hurts my eyes.

Protip: Space Wolves are not Grey Vanilla Marines. There is a reason why Space Wolves have their own codex, it's because they are significantly different. Saying "Blood Angels get Veteran assault squads why cant I bawwwwwww" is not a convincing argument.

Actually my question was why the heck the jump pack squad can't have a vet sgt ( ie a wolf guard ) .
the wolves do have a vet assault squad you can put jump packs on wolf guard, hell they can even be troops

my so called wall of whine was more of a example of why i think the costing of the bikes and jump packs for the wolf guard are as high as they are.

Also saying that the editors and writers at GW don't make mistakes is not logical since its very clear they do in every codex numarous times, i mean the space wolf book also has the whole wolf guard scout thing and the line of sight issue with njal , hell you wrote and faq for the book you know the issues.

Narlix wrote:Actually my question was why the heck the jump pack squad can't have a vet sgt ( ie a wolf guard ) .

Because GW said so.

Also, if you knew any of the fluff, you would know Skyclaws are the most roudy and untame Blood Claws. They are made skyclaws as punishment, as the older Wolves see Jump Packs as distasteful. No Wolf Guard is going to WANT to lead them

Gwar! wrote:

Narlix wrote:Actually my question was why the heck the jump pack squad can't have a vet sgt ( ie a wolf guard ) .

Because GW said so.

Also, if you knew any of the fluff, you would know Skyclaws are the most roudy and untame Blood Claws. They are made skyclaws as punishment, as the older Wolves see Jump Packs as distasteful. No Wolf Guard is going to WANT to lead them

See I would agree with you on that fluff point but, I can make an entire army of jump packing wolf guard(minus logan), so that bit of fluff just seems kinda flat. In the long run its not a big deal it just seems kinda odd that one squad in the entire army dosen't get wolf guard pack leaders. well thunder wolves don't either but they are wolf guard according to the fluff. I think the skyclaws were left off as an error, or they were left off intentionally as a balance issue( though I'm not sure why that would be maybe 8 guys 2 fist squads?). I really doubt its as simple as fluff.

Now like I said its really not a huge deal, it just makes them a poor option for tank hunting ( if your in range for the melta rule you have to charge the tank).

Also if you didn't see my edit earlier
Also saying that the editors and writers at GW don't make mistakes is not logical since its very clear they do in every codex numarous times, i mean the space wolf book also has the whole wolf guard scout thing and the line of sight issue with njal , hell you wrote and faq for the book you know the issues.

Or it could be an oversight, seeing how WG can take jump packs. I suspect that, and the missing transport space in Drop Pods and Land Raiders are due more to lack of proof reading then any mysterious intentions by GW. Now that the codex is out however they will defend it to the hilt and cite game balance reasons.

Durandal wrote:Or it could be an oversight, seeing how WG can take jump packs.

If it was an oversight, they would have released an errata.

I suspect that, and the missing transport space in Drop Pods and Land Raiders are due more to lack of proof reading then any mysterious intentions by GW. Now that the codex is out however they will defend it to the hilt and cite game balance reasons.

Protip: It is Balance Reasons. You think it's balanced to have 10 Grey Hunters with 2 Meltaguns, a WGPL with a Meltagun and a Special Character all in 1 Drop Pod?