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There is a theory about him not being freed after his arrest, that this is actually just another part of his imagination, like his girlfriend. That his need for validation and recognition projects the idea of him being freed by a cheering mob while in reality he is just taken away by those cops and put into an institution. This is why he survives supposed internal injury that makes him cough up quite a bit of blood and leaves two cops dead. The reason why he seems free one moment but locked up the very next scene.

Pretty neat theory to me, even though it is unlikely to be true.

My theory is that none of the movie is real. Arthur is no more the Joker than I am, he is imprinting it all in his own imagination.

Just saw this movie and I liked it a lot but wouldn't recommend it as a date movie for obvious reasons, not for the faint of heart and not for small children or people with a weak physical state. This movie is gonna be rough and hard so bite your lip and get ready to take it long and hard.

So what I took away. Most of the people Arthur encountered are either bad, don't give a crap or are focused on their own troubles too much to understand his.

My sympathy went completely away around the part where he suffocates his mother to death. Did she have a fling with Thomas Wayne? The papers went by quickly but it looks like it. Is he Mr. Wayne's illegitimate son? I don't know honestly. Considering how he acts to Mr. Wayne's bodyguard I get that he treated him poorly but at the same time he gives zero sympathy to Arthur. The end where he gets randomly killed for being an elite by a copycat killer that idolized the joker seems disturbing but legit. While Mr. Wayne didn't deserve to die I personally think he deserved a few punches to the face given how he treated Arthur esp. how he punched him in the first place when Arthur was just going through stress.

My thoughts on the mental health issues in the movie is that he laughs from being nervous like how some people smile when they're nervous and people think said people are laughing at them. It's a misunderstanding that happens with people with mental disorders that I've recognized. People treat you like crap until they know you have a disorder because they think you're crazy. I'd say oddly though most people that are seen as crazy have had a disorder or went through traumatic circumstances. The part where the woman barely listens to him that works for him to provide mental help is sorta similar to real life. Some care, many don't, many don't know how to help and some people actually treat people with disorders like children unable to make their own decisions not realizing these people have their own dreams and sometimes just want a fulfilling average and normal life (not even to fulfill their dreams). In my experience sometimes the people try to help but they don't know the best way how to and admittedly a lot of the people with disorders don't try to fix things they probably could (not shown in the movie).

I fully understand why he entered the woman's apartment closer to the end. He was looking for comfort in the only place he had it left. The woman he cared about cared about him somewhat but in honesty I think a dude kissing someone so early on to knowing them is weird and wouldn't fly off so well usually. As far as the apartment thing goes it fully makes sense.

The crazy part is the movie in some ways feels like it's against the Elite and Wealthy of society. The interesting part is the comedian that teased him didn't seem like a bad guy. The fight that broke out on the train between the joker rioters and the 2 cops also seemed legit. A scuffle starts, the situation gets heated and accidentally someone gets killed and next thing you know all hell breaks loose on the train. The rioters seem like what we know of em from news sources maybe.

Interesting how the news in the movie only seemed to care about the elites dying rather than the fact they beat up people. Is that legit? Sometimes and they didn't right off deserve to die. It was also a pile of bad things coming together. You have a guy with mental disorders off his meds with a gun he shouldn't have considering all of those things and the fact he's jumpy, scared and going through a lot of stress and a bunch of rich A-holes that are beating him up and pushing him into a corner. Something's gonna give at some point.

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So my end thoughts on this movie?

We should all treat each other a little better and maybe try to get to know someone a bit better to know why they're acting the way they act. If people just had more compassion none of this would've happened probably and yes we should take care of people with mental disorders. Sadly I've heard of the homeless having mental disorders as well and often they are left behind. Speaking of I used to know a schizophrenic dude that was mentally slowed and always drank and used to end up homeless because of his situation and depression. Once again though it needs someone that tries to fix themselves up as well.

This is also hard to watch. The depressing nature of the film, the constant downward spiral of Arthur's life and the psychotic moments when he's unable to receive medication anymore feel often real and it's just a trainwreck watching it all fall apart. Like I mentioned with the trainwreck you wanted to turn away but you couldn't stop watching. I'll admit some of it was hard to stay in the theater for and i'm not easily offended. It just often feels too real. The part where he kills his mom feels like a stretch given what happened though.

I watched the Joker yesterday and Phoenix did a great job by portraying a mentally disturbed character. One of the compelling things of the movie was that it didn't come off as a cartoon performed by actual people.

I sincerely hope that there will be a sequel with Phoenix on board. Great actor for sure.

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
There is a theory about him not being freed after his arrest, that this is actually just another part of his imagination, like his girlfriend. That his need for validation and recognition projects the idea of him being freed by a cheering mob while in reality he is just taken away by those cops and put into an institution. This is why he survives supposed internal injury that makes him cough up quite a bit of blood and leaves two cops dead. The reason why he seems free one moment but locked up the very next scene.

Pretty neat theory to me, even though it is unlikely to be true.

Plausible. I like this theory, it fits in perfectly with what we saw and him being an unreliable narrator.

Did anyone else wonder if the midget British guy was an early penguin?

So just saw it! Haven't read any posts in this thread so I can give an untainted reaction.

Wow, Phoenix was incredible. The movie was a long slow burn to the end but it paid off. Very dark and very believable. The laugh didn't really turn me on like Jack or Ledger. But I do like how they explained the laugh. I also feel like they tied it into the overall Batman lore well. I think it set up Joker as a persona at the end that could be taken on by anyone. Maybe that's just me.

I liked it. Wouldn't really re-watch it but it was really good once. I think it was kind of a artsy take on a comic film and a good one-off. Not sure I want more comic characters done like this. It was a very long and slow build up.

8/10

Yeah I think it was definitely set so that someone else could take up the joker mantle, in order to allow for the other jokers and the time line Canon.