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Gimgamgoo wrote: Are those really the new Votann names?
I guess the leader will be the Yaegir Maester.
Yaegir kinda makes sense to me with German. In German you have the Umlaute ä ö ü which, when written in a language without those letters, are written as ae oe ue.
With the usual Votann modifications Yaegir sounds very close to Jäger which is the German word for Hunter which fits them well.
Might be even close in some other nordic language
Yes.
Swedish: Jägare
Danish: Jæger
Norwegian: Jeger
Civilian reading: Hunter
Military reading: Ranger / Special forces
So, the Yaegirs are basically Rangers - and their leader can thus be called Yaegir Maester (Jägermeister)
... and would definitely look cool with a deer with a cross on a personal banner.
NAVARRO wrote: If this is about digital vs classic, both are tied to the material they were casted, one more than the other.
As for poses from an artistic point of view... no. If you look at collectors painting miniatures market you will see plenty on untapped poses for humans... theres so much that can be done there. If you look at classic fine art sculpting then the scope is even wider. Theres really room for so much better clever posing.
Both hands in the air is still a thing for GW XD
Don't forget some of the 3rd parties are casting in resins which can have a softer mould and allow undercuts, something you can't do with a solid metal mould and plastic. People already complain at GW's creative cutting and parts in modern models and some more outlandish poses might require even more strange and tricky to assemble cuts. Esp when you also consider that these days GW does a lot more (in general) to hide the join areas on models. Not every time, but some models go together today without almost a single join being visible and they aren't Tyranids who can get away with it with ball and socket joints.
I'm sure there are indeed more poses GW can use, but I can understand why we do see repeats when its likely quite a complex process for them to develop new poses
NAVARRO wrote: If this is about digital vs classic, both are tied to the material they were casted, one more than the other.
As for poses from an artistic point of view... no. If you look at collectors painting miniatures market you will see plenty on untapped poses for humans... theres so much that can be done there. If you look at classic fine art sculpting then the scope is even wider. Theres really room for so much better clever posing.
Both hands in the air is still a thing for GW XD
Don't forget some of the 3rd parties are casting in resins which can have a softer mould and allow undercuts, something you can't do with a solid metal mould and plastic. People already complain at GW's creative cutting and parts in modern models and some more outlandish poses might require even more strange and tricky to assemble cuts. Esp when you also consider that these days GW does a lot more (in general) to hide the join areas on models. Not every time, but some models go together today without almost a single join being visible and they aren't Tyranids who can get away with it with ball and socket joints.
I'm sure there are indeed more poses GW can use, but I can understand why we do see repeats when its likely quite a complex process for them to develop new poses
It's more an issue with the scale than the material used. Smaller scales struggle with displaying an anatomy that permits a more natural posing, so all is exaggerated. Although GW considers itself the best on the market when it comes to kits etc... If you take metal out and just look at plastics... vehicles are far superior at tamiyas etc... but human alternative poses dynamics which is the subject are already displayed in such small companies like wyrd.
It's not that they cant do it or its impossible to find new poses... its more they are not willing to do it at this point. Maybe its a commercial thing and sculptors have tight deadlines so they reuse assets. Dont know. It's doable for sure.
I wonder if its a reflection of GW using more 3rd party short term contracts for sculptors? It might be that results in more generic "use these stock poses and styles" whilst more in-house artists are fewer but get the more complex projects; but those take much longer to complete. Perhaps even involving multiple "lets make a cheap mould and see if it actually works" back and forth steps.
So it winds up being something done less often than the standard.
Overread wrote: I wonder if its a reflection of GW using more 3rd party short term contracts for sculptors? It might be that results in more generic "use these stock poses and styles" whilst more in-house artists are fewer but get the more complex projects; but those take much longer to complete. Perhaps even involving multiple "lets make a cheap mould and see if it actually works" back and forth steps.
So it winds up being something done less often than the standard.
Quite plausible in todays companies. To be fair the last influx of miniatures you can see them having a go at it. Typically a mini tiptoeing a rock or terrain to make it more dynamic and you have seen those poses a bit spammed everywhere on the new kits.
My comment although regarding poses is not all minis need to be jumping or super mega stretched, alternative poses can be more natural and even stoic, contemplative etc. That would be good to see too.
Well big silly guns means big hands and if you have two you cannot holster something that is bigger than your full body. Bit ridiculous hey.
Ugh, tell me about it. I don't think a single holster on any modern mini can actually hold the gun it's designed for. I assume all 40k technology folds up compact when not in use...
Overread wrote: I wonder if its a reflection of GW using more 3rd party short term contracts for sculptors? It might be that results in more generic "use these stock poses and styles" whilst more in-house artists are fewer but get the more complex projects; but those take much longer to complete. Perhaps even involving multiple "lets make a cheap mould and see if it actually works" back and forth steps.
So it winds up being something done less often than the standard.
Don't think there's really any evidence of them doing anything like this. You'd expect to hear former contractors talking about it and marketing their services on that basis; meanwhile, the trainee designer pathway is open pretty much permanently on the GW careers site, suggesting regular recruitment of full-time, permanent staff.
Don't think there's really any evidence of them doing anything like this. You'd expect to hear former contractors talking about it and marketing their services on that basis; meanwhile, the trainee designer pathway is open pretty much permanently on the GW careers site, suggesting regular recruitment of full-time, permanent staff.
And also suggesting a regular amount of turnover, in what I imagine isn't that deep of a pool of positions. So while it might not suggest contractors it could certainly suggest people being taken on, then after not that long moving on for one reason or another. Having a stock 'armature' for all intents and purposes could therefore be used by the newbies.
Don't think there's really any evidence of them doing anything like this. You'd expect to hear former contractors talking about it and marketing their services on that basis; meanwhile, the trainee designer pathway is open pretty much permanently on the GW careers site, suggesting regular recruitment of full-time, permanent staff.
And also suggesting a regular amount of turnover, in what I imagine isn't that deep of a pool of positions. So while it might not suggest contractors it could certainly suggest people being taken on, then after not that long moving on for one reason or another. Having a stock 'armature' for all intents and purposes could therefore be used by the newbies.
The same thing would apply – former Citadel designers marketing themselves as such if they've left and gone freelance and we don't see a lot of that. It takes time to train people and GW's volume of releases is very high and broadly increasing, while kits are also getting larger. Nothing suggests churn instead of gradual recruitment into a growing department.
Something like a stock armature is obviously possible, or plausible, for its own reasons, but it's wildly speculative to link that to anything about recruitment, retention or contracting practices, in my opinion, and the speculation does not seem well supported..
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/22 22:52:55
Don't think there's really any evidence of them doing anything like this. You'd expect to hear former contractors talking about it and marketing their services on that basis; meanwhile, the trainee designer pathway is open pretty much permanently on the GW careers site, suggesting regular recruitment of full-time, permanent staff.
And also suggesting a regular amount of turnover, in what I imagine isn't that deep of a pool of positions. So while it might not suggest contractors it could certainly suggest people being taken on, then after not that long moving on for one reason or another. Having a stock 'armature' for all intents and purposes could therefore be used by the newbies.
The same thing would apply – former Citadel designers marketing themselves as such if they've left and gone freelance and we don't see a lot of that. It takes time to train people and GW's volume of releases is very high and broadly increasing, while kits are also getting larger. Nothing suggests churn instead of gradual recruitment into a growing department.
Something like a stock armature is obviously possible, or plausible, for its own reasons, but it's wildly speculative to link that to anything about recruitment, retention or contracting practices, in my opinion, and the speculation does not seem well supported..
people talking about that or not might be part of the contract/NDA
and like in the case of the TOW Khemri dragon we had a designer talking about that he was one of several people making parts of that model, and some of them already left GW before it was released, which would indicate that no 1 designer is making single models or single lines anymore but everyone just doing parts for the database which are than combined later
and this would also fit what we are seeing here
not one making a new Chaos Lord based on an existing model, but one making new weapons, the other the armour parts, and a third putting them over a base template
in addition it looks like GW has started a while ago to make a lot of jobs/positions "replaceable" so they can switch people around and don't need one person to stick to a project to get it done (might be learning from Horus Heresy)
which would also explains the way the recent rules are written which really looking like different people worked on different parts without ever talking to each other
Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise
I can totally see using different designers and also using a pool of generated assets, brushes, parts and so forth. You don't need everyone to remake a bolter from scratch every time you need one. Such a resource would be very normal with a sculpting team
It seems stranger to me that a single model would have multiple direct sculpting staff and that they'd move around so often. I wonder if more staff, esp more remote staff working that way has resulted in GW's managers approving each step to slow down things over a smaller number of employees all in the office just working alongside each other.
But still kind of surprising to see a single model designed by a team; though I could see a dragon with rider pulling two staffers - one to do the dragon and one the rider parts. So I can see how that would come around (esp since its a skeleton dragon)
Overread wrote: I can totally see using different designers and also using a pool of generated assets, brushes, parts and so forth. You don't need everyone to remake a bolter from scratch every time you need one. Such a resource would be very normal with a sculpting team
It seems stranger to me that a single model would have multiple direct sculpting staff and that they'd move around so often. I wonder if more staff, esp more remote staff working that way has resulted in GW's managers approving each step to slow down things over a smaller number of employees all in the office just working alongside each other.
But still kind of surprising to see a single model designed by a team; though I could see a dragon with rider pulling two staffers - one to do the dragon and one the rider parts. So I can see how that would come around (esp since its a skeleton dragon)
From the HH thread about the new White Scars character:
FWIW, the initial sculptor said he'd originally sculpted the character to be quite stripped down and simple, but that since leaving the sculpting team it must have been handed back to someone else to gussy up, so there might be some incongruity in whatever else was added on
Yep constant trainee positions open, fast turnaround and multiple sculptors tapping into parts of the model all suggests to me they are working from Library templates and that the romantic artistic idea of author/artist/sculpture is long long gone at GW. It's pretty much where many companies are going guys, so nothing new. Next step manage to use library of assets with AI. Discard every artist and have prompt fiddlers for peanuts.
Overread wrote:I can totally see using different designers and also using a pool of generated assets, brushes, parts and so forth. You don't need everyone to remake a bolter from scratch every time you need one. Such a resource would be very normal with a sculpting team
From what I remember that's been a thing since forever in traditional sculpting. Even just GW had "assets" like bolters and many other standardised weapons at hand so sculptors wouldn't need to sculpt them from scratch out of green stuff for every miniature). That were the late 80s to early 90s (and it probably happened earlier, way before I knew that miniature sculpting was a job). If I remember correctly the plastic Vyper jetbike sculpt was also initially planned out and sculpted on top of a elongated regular Eldar jetbike but then they went with a distinct design because the proportions didn't work too well on the older smaller frame of the regular jetbike.
With nearly everything being digital these days they should have an immense library of useful assets to save time when it comes to sculpting generic details (from props like weapons and pouches) to greeble and decoration like skulls or purity seals. GW also has a distinct style (from design language to proportions) though its IPs which only enables that (even from fantasy to SF).
And yeah, there's always the "danger" of stumbling down the easy path and just rearranging existing parts and giving a 3D model little individuality but having an organised asset library (where you roughly know what you have and where to find it) can also save you a lot of generic busywork and buy you time that you can spend better on what makes a miniature distinct. And yeah (again), with Marines all being so similar it can be a fine line between smart reuse of assets and some miniature feeling like a lazy C&P job (plus minor adjustments).
Bob naismith? I think, described removing all the heads of perry sculpted miniatures and swapping them around and recasting them for variety. Like with the original squat range. Seems in essence the same thing
One ig regiment was basically mordians with new head sculpted.
No proof but there were in old days often very similar metal models but head/weapons different. Commisars etc. Could imagine them doing mid-sculpt casts to get body same and do rest for each variant?
Various sculptors from the old metal days have talked about changing up old minis (often by cutting up and replacing parts on the original green once it had been used to make figure number one)
for example from Trish Carden on facebook
Trish Carden Miniatures and Design
Here are the only greens I have left of the Marauder Miniatures Wood Elf range.
You can see in the photos that the putty is two different colours. The darker colour is the original sculpt and the lighter green is where that original sculpt was converted, something that was frequently done to quickly increase the amount of figures in a range. The dark colour is the result of a dusting of graphite powder which was used as a mould release. As the originals went through the process twice they had two dusting hence their grey look!
On the whole Green Stuff would survive casting reasonably well. Thin pieces or awkward shapes were more likely to break and leave you with a bag of rubble!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/03/23 22:11:44
An old article I read awhile back credited Brian Ansell with the idea of taking a basic model, making several copies, and then sculpting on things like pouches, weapons, and armor bits to make one model into several different models.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Belthanos wrote: One ig regiment was basically mordians with new head sculpted.
Praetorians. They weren't originally created as a general release, though. They were conversions for a battle scene display. Later released in a limited edition box due to demand, and then later again rereleased more widely.
No proof but there were in old days often very similar metal models but head/weapons different. Commisars etc. Could imagine them doing mid-sculpt casts to get body same and do rest for each variant?
Yes, this is what I referred to back up the thread a ways. Vast swathes of early metal ranges did this. The early metal space marine range had many, many examples of it, and the original metal Necromunda gangs had many of their models duplicated with different arms, heads and detail bits.
GW certainly weren't the only ones doing it either, either. It's an easy timesaver for expanding a range on a budget.
In this interview with the Perry twins, they do mention how the different Dogs of War pikemen regiments were the same basic poses with different details sculpted on. This thing's been going on forever.
That was such a nice interview. Thanks for the link!
I love how they talk about sneaking in more historical looking miniatures into the line before somebody further up the corporate ladder could ask for more "fantasy" details. The little historic aside about how the studio started using Green Stuff was also good. It's rather funny that they even used Fimo but it wasn't for them so the usage of Green Stuff spread through the studio when during Rackham's initial rise in popularity everybody was wondering how they were sculpting their miniatures and it turned out they did them in Fimo (which doesn't cure on its own and needs baking).
I still very much like Braganza's Besiegers. The mix of heavy armour, pavises, and the captains pose just makes them one of the most interesting regiments GW ever made (and I have a soft spot for sallet-like helmets).
