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I played against a daemon army for the first time the other night, and found them to be highly competitive, to say the least.

From memory, what I faced was a 1750 point army that consisted of:
- bloodthirster
- herald of tzeentch on chariot
- unit of plaguebearers
- unit of bloodletters
- unit of horrors
- unit of daemonettes
- two (count 'em, two) Soul Grinders
- a frighteningly large unit of Fiends of Slaanesh

Scary huh? His tactic was for his first wave to bring in the bloodthirster on the flank, one soul grinder covering each half of the table, and send in the horrors and plaguebearers to absorb fire, then bring in everything he could in the second wave to counterattack.

I had 3 units of boyz in trukks (one was wiped out in the first turn before they got to do anything, another in the second turn likewise doing nothing in return, the third in the third turn after taking out most of the plaguebearers)
zzap guns (which failed to do anything - bad rolls)
looted wagon with boomgun (cleaned up a handful of plaguebearers)
battlewagon with lots of rockets, carrying burna boyz, tankbustas and a weirdboy (all of which failed to do anything, other than incapacitate a soul grinder)
unit of biker boyz (charged a soul grinder and just locked it up in combat the whole game but failed to do anything much to it)
big mek with shokk attack gun (failed to do anything - bad rolls)
unit of lootas (nearly took down the bloodthirster)

My tactic was to initially make him split his forces with a feint and use my greater speed and numbers to pick my battles and my heavy firepower to focus on one side (my army USUALLY has really good luck with shooting), but everything on one half of my side of the table got wiped out by shooting so quickly that by the end of the third turn it was basically game over.

I'm asking for help because I have another game with him soon, and I am not used to playing against tournament-style armies, me and my friends usually just play themed armies that fit the story we attaching to the battle. Nonetheless, I'd like to put up a bit more of a fight next time, so i'd really appreciate any tips on army composition and tactics.

I have a fairly obscene amount of orks at my disposal, so I could make almost any type of army to counter it. Just not sure what to do, it was my first time facing daemons and it did not go well to say the least....

One fairly obvious tip is, when you have a suitable scenario, try to go 2nd and leave all your units in reserve. This way, the CD player has to deepstike half his army + whatever comes in on turn 2 on an empty table.
This is a good way of being able to pick your battles.

It might work less good as an ork player as your shooting is either less reliable or short ranged, or in case of Loota's heavy which doesnt work so well walking on to the board. It still gives you benefits, you can get the assault on units close to your table edge, and if he's far away you at least can make a battle plan without having to deal with most of his deepstrikes.

battlewagon with lots of rockets, carrying burna boyz, tankbustas and a weirdboy

This is actually not legal. You can only have one squad in a vehicle, plus any characters that have joined that squad. I recommend against Looted Boomgun wagons and Big Gunz. Shooty ork armies typically use large mobs of lootas.

D'Ork wrote: I recommend against Looted Boomgun wagons and Big Gunz. Shooty ork armies typically use large mobs of lootas.

Big Gunz are useful as anti-tank weapons, as long as they're Kannons. In a battle with no vehicles (unless the Soul Grinder is a walker, I actually don't know), then they'll be of limited use and should probably be left at home. Lootas are practically always useful, though.

Nivoglibina wrote:try to go 2nd and leave all your units in reserve.

I quite like that actually - use his own tactic against him.

D'Ork wrote:This is actually not legal.

Thanks, I didn't realise. Can you cite a page number for that rule? (sorry, I've gotten bad rules advice off forums before is all). Also, could I get around that by having the second unit start outside the vehicle, then get onboard as their first turn move?

alanedomain wrote:Big Gunz are useful as anti-tank weapons, as long as they're Kannons. In a battle with no vehicles (unless the Soul Grinder is a walker, I actually don't know)

They are walkers. I don't know, I was never impressed with kannons. They're really not that much better than rockkit launchas, and for the same amount of points I can get many more rokkits which surely makes up for the better grot accuracy. Zzap gunz have a slightly less than 50% chance of rolling a strength of 8 or higher anyway, and that's per gun, plus they have AP 2. But in this case I'd agree that they weren't the best option as the soul grinders seem to be immune to chew shaken and crew stunned results. Would you mind expanding on your reasoning behind using kannons? Cheers.


I'm thinking maybe I should drop the weirdboy for a warboss, definitely, and i'm also thinking about some meganobz. My reasoning is that I suspect I need more hard hitters to deal with the various big scary things I'll be facing. I just didn't have enough power klaw attacks to comprehensively bring anything down in close combat.

AoBR rulebook, page 66, "Transport Capacity," 2nd paragraph. The rule pertains to what the vehicle may carry, and is not related to embarkation rules, so no - you may not add a second mob later in the game. Really, when a vehicle listing says "May transport up to X models," it should say "May transport a single squad of up to X models." (Characters that are tossed into the vehicle alongside that squad become members of the squad.)

D'Ork wrote:AoBR rulebook, page 66, "Transport Capacity," 2nd paragraph.

Thanks mate

Daemons work differently than most armies, because almost all their saves are invulnerable saves, and every model has eternal warrior. barring the soul grinder of course, seeing as how it's a vehicle.

So for daemons, for the most part, having quantity of attacks is more important than having quality of attacks; or in other words, against Daemons having an assault 3 str 4 ap 6 gun is better than having a assault 1 str 8 ap 1 melta.

Fortunately Orks can throw a lot of attacks out in assault with generic choppa slugga boyz. Unfortunately some of the daemons can also throw out a lot of attacks, and at higher initiative than you.

I'd castle up in a corner inside my vehicles to deny him options for his deep striking. then move in force, using your turn 2 Waagh to slam into the target of your choice and beating it down. You want to do as much damage as possible to the half of his army on the table, and then clean up the remainder along with units deepstriking in.

I'd get rid of the tankbustas and keep the burnas most likely, some of the daemons only have a 5+ invulnerable (like the daemonettes) and flamers can wreck their day.

When given the chance always go 2nd against Daemons. One of the strengths of Daemons is going 2nd. Deathwing want 2nd turn as well. Going first lets the Daemon react to you so spreading his army out piece meal won't hurt him at all, in fact it's what it's designed to do.

Going 1st means the CD player gets to DS in response to you.

Lots of Dakka is a key to beating Daemons. Bog infantry save is 5+ which we all know is next to crap. Again, don't bring lots of high S, low AP weapons. Daemons don't care. 10 loota boys will hurt daemons a lot more than shooting zap guns at them will.

Swamp them with large numbers. Daemonettes and Fiends have insane initiative and attack values and their I insures that even if you charge you go last. 12 shoota boys shooting first at 12 daemonettes (just for the law of 6 being slaanesh and all; no in game benefit, its just fluffy) will kill 4 daemonettes and then charge in. Daemonettes will kill 5 orks to be nice. 7 orks hit back with 22 attacks (assume pk nob). 9 regular hits, 3 pk hits. 6 dead daemonettes. Orks win by 1 killing another Daemonette due to no-retreat. Next turn the orks wipe the last Daemonette.

Fiends will ruin your fun. BT could just run you down. You'll do a wound if 12 boys charge, he'll do 3 back, you are LD9 now but at -2 for losing combat so you break on 8. If you do odds are he'll run you down at I5 vs I2. If he doesn't you'll lose 2 more orks to No Retreat and he'll just end up killing the entire mob with maybe a wound or 2 left. You'll mess it up but either hit the BT with multiple boys or shoot the crap out of it first and get it down to at least 2 wounds, preferably 1, even better dead.

Wow, thanks guys, that's exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Kroot Loops has da sneaky taktiks wot getz yoo dere, and Fatespinner: if I was still in school I'd ask you to do my maths homework lol!

Cheers guys, I'll mull this all over and let you know how it all turns out. Not totally sure how to deal with the fiends of slannesh yet... Maybe I could distract them with some deffkoptas or warbikes or something. Keep them out of the main fight long enough to tip the balance, or just shoot them to bits.

Any shooty units you have (like lootas) should be as high up on ruins as possible (depending if you have the relevant scenery, as when deep striking you land on the ground floor, thats a long walk up) failing that deploying in a building with a parapet would increase your survivability as the deamons might just bounce off the walls, and you can still fire out from it. If you have no buildings... protect lootas with grots, if the grots get charged, they WILL loose, and run away, then the deamons will be sat in front of lootas waiting to be sent right back home.

With the rest of your force in reserve, and being a relatively fast ork army you can charge who you want and where.

One more point should be added: Icons. Killing the units with Icons ( provided that Daemons still have units in Reserve ) should be a priority. There is no reason to give the Daemon player safe and accurate Deep Strikes.

Keep super shooty units off the ground floor.

Fiends are beasts so can't climb building. Daemonettes are another matter entirely but at least the fiends can't get to you (unless he Pavanes your orks into Fiend rushing range).

I know Daemons struggle mightily with the ork horde of 180+ boys. Trukks don't pack as many boys but it's still a lot.

Just know that even charging you'll go last against everything except the Plaguebearers (and with T5 and FNP they too will be a nightmare to take out) so shoot first and then charge but make sure your advantage, especially against slaanesh daemons is at least 3 to 1 to be safe. You charge 6 fiends with 12 boys it won't be pretty for you. In fact there won't be a squad left. You'll knock a wound off 1 from 24 shoota shoots and then charge in; fiends will kill 3 from rending and force 13 saves. 11 more dead orks wiping the squad.

If you can get the pack down to 3 Fiends or less 12 boys stand a small modicum of success but that will still be a close fight.