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Dakka'ites, I was playing the other day and ran into two situations where my opponent and I disagreed. I was hoping for some feedback, rules support on both. They are:

1. Troops in close combat with a walker managed to Glance and Penetrate it, but roll double 1's on the vehicle damage chart. They take no wounds in return, is there any kind of combat resolution for this?

2. A squad of Eldar Fire Dragons disembark to shoot at a tank. They have an Exarch with a Heavy Flamer attached, but he is out of range of the tank. Can the squad fire Melta's straight ahead while the Exarch shoots his Heavy Flamer straight ahead and hits the enemy squad standing next to him?

3. Cover Rules: Models are standing on the base of a building, with no obstructions to line of sight. They are in the 'area' terrain of the building, but are completely visible. They did test for difficult terrain that turn, what is the status of their cover save or do they even have one?

4. Shooting is applied to the majority toughness, does the majority armor save need to be taken by the squad when a wound is allocated. (Example: A Cannonness is paired with a group of 10 Sisters. She has a 2+, they have a 3+. If one wound is caused, may she take her 2+ against it (and on failing put the wound on herself)?

2.) As long as he is targetting the tank (Line from narrow to big end points at the tank.) and he is hitting none of his own models, he can.

Similar situation, Say an enemy unit is 1" in front of you & another is 3" behind them, you can flame both of them so long as the target unit is the nearer one and I think there's a rule that you must position the template for the most possible hits on the target but i don't know, we Tau don't like to play with fire because it means we need to get close.

Edit.) 3 - If they are fully visible I would say no, consult BGB Pg. 21 "When are models in cover". It states a part of the body must be obscured so if you can see 100% I would say no. Though there's been games where me & my opponent have declared an area within 8" of 2 trees as "woods" and any model in it gets a 4+ but that's for the sake of not having to position models around 20 different trees without knocking the trees over. I would discuss area terrain before the game or just "1-3 I'm right 4-6 your right"

1. BRB pg 73 "Each roll on the vehicle damage table against a walker counts as a single wound for the prurposes of working out who won the combat"

3. Standing in "clear" area terrain is still area terrain, so the features of the terrain itself doesn't matter much if the unit is inside of its boundries.

4. No every model takes its allocated wounds with it's own saves. So yes the cannonness can take the one wound on a 2+

Bla_Ze wrote:
3. Standing in "clear" area terrain is still area terrain, so the features of the terrain itself doesn't matter much if the unit is inside of its boundries.

I must disagree from a RaW standpoint. While the way you say it is how I and most people play. The rules are clearly stated that a part of the body must be obstructed (BGB Pg. 21). In a tournament setting I would discuss it with your opponent or have a rules judge / TO clear it up. Not trying to be an @$$ but where I live we have That Guy who insists on playing 100% RaW, and makes a huge fuss over any use of RaI, even when he's not playing in the game.

Bla_Ze wrote:1. BRB pg 73 "Each roll on the vehicle damage table against a walker counts as a single wound for the prurposes of working out who won the combat"

Clarification here: The troops therefore win combat against the walker by two...but the walker has no Ld value, how is this resolved?

Edit: There is a general debate on applying TLOS I have seen. I have always erred towards RAW and if I want a cover save, I make sure 50% of the models are obscured. If this is something that should be discussed, I will make a point to in the future.

BGB pg 73 "Walkers and Assaults" 7 paragraphs down.

Edit: Caught myself right after Gwar! corrected me

Vehicles never take morale checks

1) P73 every glance or pen counts as a wound for combat resolution. However, winning combat against a walker doesn't do anything.

2) P22 models in area terrain (not vehicles) are always in cover - it doesn't matter if they are visible or not.

3) P17 If the model is out of range of all models he can see in the target unit then the shot automatically misses.

4) P25 After rolling to wound against majority toughness the wounds are allocated to specific models. Each model then uses it's own armour save.

Shas - please check the book and quote page references rather than simply giving out incorrect information.

calypso2ts wrote:1. Troops in close combat with a walker managed to Glance and Penetrate it, but roll double 1's on the vehicle damage chart. They take no wounds in return, is there any kind of combat resolution for this?

Vehicles never take morale checks. Page 63 "Vehicles and Morale".

2. A squad of Eldar Fire Dragons disembark to shoot at a tank. They have an Exarch with a Heavy Flamer attached, but he is out of range of the tank. Can the squad fire Melta's straight ahead while the Exarch shoots his Heavy Flamer straight ahead and hits the enemy squad standing next to him?

No. If the Flamer is out of range of the target being shot at, it automatically misses and cannot hit another unit. If the unit targeted WAS in range, then it could hit additional units.

3. Cover Rules: Models are standing on the base of a building, with no obstructions to line of sight. They are in the 'area' terrain of the building, but are completely visible. They did test for difficult terrain that turn, what is the status of their cover save or do they even have one?

If it is area terrain, they get a cover save. End of Discussion.

4. Shooting is applied to the majority toughness, does the majority armor save need to be taken by the squad when a wound is allocated. (Example: A Cannonness is paired with a group of 10 Sisters. She has a 2+, they have a 3+. If one wound is caused, may she take her 2+ against it (and on failing put the wound on herself)?

The rules for this are covered on page 25 under complex units.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:
3. Standing in "clear" area terrain is still area terrain, so the features of the terrain itself doesn't matter much if the unit is inside of its boundries.

I must disagree from a RaW standpoint. While the way you say it is how I and most people play. The rules are clearly stated that a part of the body must be obstructed (BGB Pg. 21). In a tournament setting I would discuss it with your opponent or have a rules judge / TO clear it up. Not trying to be an @$$ but where I live we have That Guy who insists on playing 100% RaW, and makes a huge fuss over any use of RaI, even when he's not playing in the game.

The rules are very clear:

...we have made a few exceptions...target models whose bases are at least partially inside area terrain are in cover...

This is specifically described as an exception to the normal cover rules so the obscuration requirement is dropped.

Thanks for the quick reply.

I find it ironic that you can bang the heck out of a tin can, but it still manages to keep you locked in combat

EDIT: Please ignore this post, internet's acting up . .

Never give duke the slip if you wanna keep your li'll pip.

calypso2ts wrote:Thanks for the quick reply.

I find it ironic that you can bang the heck out of a tin can, but it still manages to keep you locked in combat

That dreadnought is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Shas'O Dorian wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:
3. Standing in "clear" area terrain is still area terrain, so the features of the terrain itself doesn't matter much if the unit is inside of its boundries.

I must disagree from a RaW standpoint. While the way you say it is how I and most people play. The rules are clearly stated that a part of the body must be obstructed (BGB Pg. 21). In a tournament setting I would discuss it with your opponent or have a rules judge / TO clear it up. Not trying to be an @$$ but where I live we have That Guy who insists on playing 100% RaW, and makes a huge fuss over any use of RaI, even when he's not playing in the game.

Read page 22 in the BRB, the RAW is quite crystal clear on this. I'm curious to hear why you disagree 'from a RAW standpoint' and call it 'RAI' though.

"Exceptions
In order to keep the game flowing at a faster pace, we
have made a few exceptions to the cover rules given on
the previous page, namely:
...
Inside area terrain: Target models whose bases are
at least partially inside area terrain are in cover,
regardless of the direction the shot is coming from."

The question is if the lip on the outside of the building counts as being a part of its area cover.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:The question is if the lip on the outside of the building counts as being a part of its area cover.

See "ruins with bases" on P82 which says that it's "best" if they do. An intact building is not area terrain so this would not apply.

In most cases yes, uness you and your opponen decide otherwise.

calypso2ts wrote:

Bla_Ze wrote:1. BRB pg 73 "Each roll on the vehicle damage table against a walker counts as a single wound for the prurposes of working out who won the combat"

Clarification here: The troops therefore win combat against the walker by two...but the walker has no Ld value, how is this resolved?

Edit: There is a general debate on applying TLOS I have seen. I have always erred towards RAW and if I want a cover save, I make sure 50% of the models are obscured. If this is something that should be discussed, I will make a point to in the future.

Firstly, as has been mentioned, walkers are not affected by losing combat. However, if fighting a walker and an enemy squad then those hits would become significant.

Secondly, do note that the 50% requirement is for vehicles and monsterous creatures. For other unit types any amount of the model can be obscured to gain a cover save. However, 50% of the models in the units (e.g five or more guys in a squad of ten) must have some sort of cover for the unit to have a cover save (think majority cover save, like majority toughness)