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With referance with the whole 'Multi-Detatchment' army rule, and with the fact that I found my self not being able to play with less than 4 elite choices, I decided to actually partition my army, and tie it in with my armies history and theme.

My force of decimated Crimson Fists contains no tactical squads, but a 10 man sternguard squad, (the marines that survived the famous attack of the orks), and 2 small scout squads, (the new recruits there to replace the casualties). These scout squads led by tellion who has come from the Ultramarines to help train and re-build the Crimson Fists.

As you can see below, I have 3 heavy support choices there, and an other 2 elite choices.

So, in galant rescue, the Sons of Orar come to aid with 2 tactical squads, 2 small Assualt squads (one lead by a chaplain with jump pack), An other Dreadnought and an other Devastator squad.

More shall be bought, but this is it as of today.

What do you think of this Idea, and How would you feel about fighting allied armies like this? I dont think I would use 2 Masters, as the dual Orbital bombardment will loose all my friends lol.

Will add a photo when the painting is more underway.

I wouldn't say its a allied army. Allied army is like imperial guard playing with sisters of battle or space marines. What your doing is painting half your army one colour and the other half another colour, which is nice.

Looking at the bizarre army picture instead of a list, this looks confusing and lokos like deployment tactica. If it is deployment then its really wrong...

List wise you've got three HQ's, you can only have 2.

You also have 4 elites, you can only have 3.

Tactical squads need transports.

You have 3 dev squads, unless they're combat squaded.

You need to do a proper list, not a image as it looks like deployment.

Ok, yes, In effect, for battles where I will not use a multi-detatchment force, it will be just 1 army painted 2 colours. (Thus following the story of casualties being replaced by units of a friendly helping chapter). But Going by the rules for a multi-detatchment army, (for battles of 2500pts or more), the force organiseation chart is doubled, and can be trippled or anything.

I dont agree that tactical squads 'need' transports. What for? It would be a waste of my rhino, which is being used much more effectively for the sternguard, to get them in range quickly with their special ammunition and combi-weapons.

Also there are only 2 devestator squads, one in each force.

And its not a deployment tactic, its just the way I've always drawn my armies out. The way I have them sitting on the shelf!

I do my army lists properly, but I havent finished them yet although I will have in about half an hour so Ill post that up.

Cheers for the opinions tho!

Never heard of any rules for a multi army at all. To me you just have one force, unless you a playing two seperate armies? Can you explain more or show me what rules you are on about?

lol your tactical squads are on foot and become a easy choice. You want to get the sternguard into range right? Well you do that with the same as the tactical squad....

Ah, my mistake on the dev.s

I see. Well it makes it hard to read because you need to hunt around and see units all over the place. Usually you just list HQ, elites etc etc.

Page 87 of the mini-rulebook!

Yea, I just like to see my army in representative proportion when I'm drawing it all out. Just use army lists for organising games and battle forces and all.

It is basically one army, but when I use the multi-detatchment rule I split it into 2 chapters. Was also thinking, (although possibly not as tactically advisable, but more fun and story-like), of always bringing the Sons of Orar, (or which ever units I use that a red), on as reserves, so it is litterally a shattered Crimson Fist force in turn one, and then the reinforcements arrive.

I, as you can probably guess, am one of those who voted that they like drinking and having fun with theyre games!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, completed the army list.

Its a marathon of a typing procedure but I'll try and do it as simpley as possible.

Each is done as a seperate army, but it is my whole army, so for casual gaming I will make smaller mixtures from the entirety, and use it as one force.

Crimson Fists: 1697pts

Hq.

Pedro Kantor - 175

Elites.

Terminator Squad - 200
-Dedicated Transport, Land Raider with HK and Multimelta - 270

Sternguard Veterans - 125 [300]
+5 Veterans - 125
3 combi meltas, 2 flamers, 1 plasma - 30
Sgt - Power sword 15, melta bombs 5.
Rhino transport with extra Armour - 50

Dreadnought, with assault cannon - 115

Troops.

Scout Squad - 75 [147]
Camo Cloaks x4 - 12
Heavy Bolter - 10
Sgt Tellion - 50

Scout Squad - 75 [120]
Camo Cloaks x5 - 15
Heavy Bolter - 10
Sgt - Power sword 15, melta bombs 5.

Heavy Support.

Devastator Squad - 90 [195]
2 missile Launchers - 30
Plasma Cannon - 25
Las Cannon - 35
Sgt - Power sword 15.

Vindicator with HK - 125


Sons of Orar

Hq.

Master - 125 [178]
Storm Bolter - 3
Power Fist - 25
Hellfire Rounds - 10
Auxillery Grenade Launcher - 15

Chaplain - 100 [130]
Jump pack - 15
Digital Weapons - 10
Melta bombs - 5

Elites.

Dreadnought - 105 [145]
Twinlinked Las Cannon - 30
Missile Launcher - 10

Troops.

Tactical Squad - 90 [195]
+5 Marines - 80
Meltagun - 5
Heavy Bolter - free
Sgt - Power sword 15, Meltabombs 5.

Tactical Squad - 90 [195]
+5 Marines - 80
Meltagun - 5
Heavy Bolter - free
Sgt - Power sword 15, Meltabombs 5.

Fast Attack.

Assault Squad - 100 [115]
Plasma Pistol - 15
(Led by Chaplain)

Assault Squad - 100 [150]
Plasma Pistol - 15
Sgt - Pair Lightning Claws 30, Melta bombs 5.

Heavy Support.

Devastator Squad - 90 [195]
2 missile Launchers - 30
Plasma Cannon - 25
Las Cannon - 35
Sgt - Power sword 15.


And There we go!

3000pts together.

Tried to make it look all fancy with size and colour but I just failed. Coding baffles me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sons of Orar total is 1303

Every day is a school day, huh?

Ok on the Fists:

Drop the hunter killer on the l.d, is isn't much use and only one shot.

Drop the flamers and plasma on the sternguard and use combi weapons, that way you don't lose the special ammo . Sternguard are more a shooting unit that assault, though can hold there own. So I would drop the power weapon and melta bombs and get combi meltas if you really want to bust tanks with them.

Heavy bolter comes with hellfire shells as standard, so Telion won't be much use for that weapon as will only reduce scatter by 1". Also doesn't benefit the snipers, really. I would rather take a missile launcher for that 2+ to hit roll.

The dev's aren't really that good, they cost a bucket of points and generally you need one body bag per heavy weapon. You have mixed range, so if you're sitting at the back of the table the plasma canno may not reach. Also no need for a power weapon, dev's won't be assaulting and if they did get assaulted they'll probably die anyway.

You don't need the hunter killer on the vindicator either.

Ok for the Sons then:

Don't take a power fist on the master, waste of the high initiative 6. Take a relic blade.

Power fist is better than power weapon and melta bomb combo. Power fists can smack vehicles, walkers, infantry and monstrous creatures the p/w and melta combo cannot, or not so well. With a melta bomb you need 6's to hit a walker and also get one shot against it and vehicles, with a power fist you get 3 attacks when charging

Same for the dev squad as above.

As whole army I would say get another land raider, one is a easy target. Tact squads need transports to stay safe and have mobility, foot sloggers will die quickly. Both dreadnoughts need to have the same setup as they're unsupported, one is at the back the other marching up front. Drop the dev's, they cost too much - tri-las predators are the way forward to match dev's, almost. I would throw in another terminator squad, unit redundnacy and dual threat.

Hope that helps!!

It doesn't seem like he's looking for advice on his list as far as competitiveness, just on well rounded fun and opinions on using an un-standard FOC. I like it, cool themed idea that still wont have a problem being relatively competitive.

What I have suggested are just better choices and create a better army

I love forces of marines with more than one chapter included.

Personally, I have a tac squad of Mentor Leqion and a Mentor Legion Predator alongside a predominantly Lamenters force. It is a similar idea to yours - The Lamenters need the support of an extra few bodies, and the Mentor Legion are there to learn from the Lamenters strategies that they used in their 100 Year penitent crusade against the 'nids. (Modern Mentor Legion fluff is that they never ally, but the original fluff was that they only EVER fight as small detachments alongside other chapters in order to learn more and more strategies taht they can then pass on elsewhere).

I am planning to have a counts-as Kantor leader (using the '91 Games Day captain) and various other HQ options, and pick which ones I want to use for any given battle. I am also planning to include Telion painted in Ultramarine colours to be there in a Lamenters squad in detached duty while the Lamenters rebuild. The 'nids fluff works well with that. I MIGHT even have that Chaplain HQ dude in his own Ultramarine colours in my army, as one option.

I absolutely love the Crimson Fists, and I would like to have a few of them in my force too, but it would eventually get ridiculous if I had too many different chapters.

Do we have clarification on this "multi-detachment force" rule. I have never heard of it and would like some more info.

Its at the back wiht force organisation rules, but seems to be some custom mission or big games. Not a normal game.

Nice ideas, but I'm keeping it the way it is lol. All those special weapons in the Sternguard are already combi's, and Im not getting rid of 2 dev's, A. Cuz I paid for them and I now have them. B. There one of the most important parts of my army.

Relic blade for the Master, probably will happen but I just liked the powerfist I gave him, its the one thats pointing!

All the other stuff is a bit nitty gritty and would have to be decided at the last minute. When I fight Space Marines, I direct my fast attack CC straight for the Dev's as they are such an easy target.

Cheers for taking the interest anyhow!

Hey there!

Had a good rummage round my bits box and pdated my list a bit as I wanted to include some new ideas with necessary ideas and some of your ideas too. Would like you all to give it a good thrashing just before I alter the models for the final time before I get stuck into painting!

I will include little notes to the side or below each thing, to express any particular reason for me doing something, unless it has already been said above.

======
Crimson Fists: - 1688pts
======

Hq.

Pedro Kantor - 175 [645]

Elites.

Terminator Squad - 200
-Dedicated Transport, Land Raider with HK and Multimelta - 270

(14 storm bolter shots charging out of a Land Raider?)

Sternguard Veterans - 125 [305]
+5 Veterans - 125
2 c/meltas, 2 c/flamers, 2 c/plasmas - 30
Sgt - Power Fist 25.
Rhino with extra Armour, Dozer blade - [55]

(Can be split as combat squads, sgt, flamers and melta's as an assaulting team, and the rest with plama's to hold objectives.) Rhino can be used elsewhere if need be.

Dreadnought, with assault cannon - [115]


Troops.

Scout Squad - 75 [147]
Camo Cloaks x4 - 12
Heavy Bolter - 10
Sgt Tellion - 50

Scout Squad - 75 [100]
Camo Cloaks x5 - 15
Heavy Bolter - 10

(Holding objectives, taking out tough models, good saves in cover, cheap troop choice.)

Heavy Support.

Devastator Squad - 90 [196]
2 missile Launchers - 30
Plasma Cannon - 25
Las Cannon - 35
1 extra marine - 16

Vindicator with SS - [125]

(Lots of Firepower which works well with land raider. Cannon fodder marine included!)


======
Sons of Orar - 1309pts
======

Hq.

Master - 125 [198]
Artificer Armour - 15
Storm Bolter - 3
Relic Blade - 30
Hellfire Rounds - 10
Auxillery Grenade Launcher - 15

Chaplain - 100 [130]
Jump pack - 15
Digital Weapons - 10
Melta bombs - 5

Elites.

Dreadnought - 105 [145]
Twinlinked Las Cannon - 30
Missile Launcher - 10

Troops.

Tactical Squad - 90 [195]
+5 Marines - 80
Meltagun - 5
Heavy Bolter - free
Sgt - Power sword 15, Meltabombs 5.

Tactical Squad - 90 [195]
+5 Marines - 80
Flamer - free
Heavy Bolter - free
Sgt - Power Fist - 25

Fast Attack.

Assault Squad - 100 [115]
Plasma Pistol - 15
(Led by Chaplain)

Assault Squad - 100 [135]
Plasma Pistol - 15
Sgt - Lightning Claw 15, Melta bombs 5.

Heavy Support.

Devastator Squad - 90 [196]
2 missile Launchers - 30
Plasma Cannon - 25
Las Cannon - 35
1 extra marine - 16

Total - [2997]

Im going for a 3000pt army, so some of the wargear is added just to make up the points, but also effective tools.

I'll probably finish this army at a total of 3500pts, by adding a Predator Tank, 2 Rhino's and a terminator squad to the Sons of Orar, and if possible (after removing some wargear) a sniper scout squad to the Crimson Fists.

Ok, Dramatic change of events!

Well not that dramatic like, but I dont think I want to go for sons of Orar any more.

Anyone got any good suggestions? I am picky about the colour I go for, dont think it should be blue or purple or anything too close, and Im also a bit picky about what the chapters name is lol, but in effect, Id appreciate if any of you who are 'in the know' of the ancient and recent history of Space Marines could look at the list for the Sons of Orar there, and let me know what chapter came into your head at first glance.

Ive been thinking of Howling Griffons or Eagle warriors, but I'm not sure. Basically just something that I like the look of, which also ties in with what I see is called the 'fluff'.

Cheers.

Lots of assault marines? Blood angels or successors, or Raven guard at a push....

Was thinking Raven Guard, but theyre a fairly big chapter on their own, and then there is the strong presence of troop in those tactical squads and then the devestators and the dreadnought, so it is very fast attacky, but also fairly evenly spread.

It was actually blood angels that gave me the first idea of splitting my army! But they sort of have their own rulse and codex and things so it would be a bit to complicated.

Will look into their successors tho! Found a big list of chapters on the net.