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Which list do you like better? Advice would be appreciated, both on changes to list and tactics.

Dark Elves
Master - manticore, HA, cloak, shield, and lance = 294
Sorceress - level 2, dark pegasus, tome of furion, pendant of khaeleth = 235
Assassin - manbane, rending stars = 145
10x crossbowmen = 100
10x crossbowmen = 100
5x dark riders w/ rxb = 110
5x dark riders w/ rxb = 110
5x shades w/ GW = 90
5x cold one knights = 135
war hydra = 175
total = 1494

Wood Elves
Noble - wild rider, stag, oaken armor = 210
Noble - alter, helm of the hunt, hail of doom arrow, LA, GW = 156
Noble - alter, amber pendant, LA, GW = 141
OR
Spellsinger - dispel scroll, calaingor's stave = 140
10x glade guard = 120
10x glade guard = 120
8x dryads = 96
8x dryads = 96
5x glade riders = 120
5x glade riders = 120
8x wardancers = 144
5x wild riders - musician, standard bearer, war banner = 173
total = 1496 or 1495

Dwarfs
Thane - MR of gromril, rune of resistance, perservation, furnace, GW, and oathstone = 159
Runesmith - Rune of spellbreaking, stone, shield, GW = 106
10x thunderers w/ shields = 150
10x quarrellers = 110
10x quarreller rangers w/ shields = 150
20x warriors w/ shields and command = 205
15x hammerers w/ shields and command and rune of stoicism = 250
cannon w/ forging = 125
bolt thrower w/ engineer and burning = 65
bolt thrower w/ engineer = 60
organ gun = 120
total = 1500

Sorry that I put three different lists in one post. Hope that doesn't deter anyone from looking at them all and give me some sound advice. It would be appreciated even if you only feel comfortable with one of the armies. Thanks.

That Dark Elf list looks pretty darn familiar.

Are these all based on models you already own?

I'm partial to wood elves, obviously...

I'd definitely include the spellsinger instead of the second alter kindred!

@ Kirbinator. It does look familiar. Thanks. And yes I own all these models (kinda). I have 4 old glade riders that I use as dark riders or as a second unit of wild riders, my manticore still isn't assembled and the stag is in the mail. I think I still have a few other DE models to reassemble. The dwarfs should be all good, and I think the spellsingers arm fell off, but other than that and the stag the wood elves are all good too.

Do the DE and WE look the same or have the same feel to them?

Which list do you think I would be most competitive with?

I like the look of that DE list. A good balance of magic, maneuver, and fire. The hydra and manticore are the main threats, backed up by the CoK, flanking performed by the Dark Riders, shades hit from behind. Not bad for 1500.

Your Wood Elves look very character-heavy, but I guess no more so than your Dark Elves.

I've never played against Wood Elves, I'd be more interested in a game against them rather than Dark Elves. Gotta admit though, I do like that Dark Elf list.

So two votes for DE. I was thinking about dropping something to try to get a block unit like 231 pts for a ASF black guard. I do like the speed of that list though.

And one vote for WE. Once again I was going for speed and shooty. I made a mistake when I first made it though and left both #2 alter and spellsinger in there.

Nothing for the dwarfs. They would just would get out manuevered. What if I went even heavier gunline and dropped the block of warriors for 2 units of 10 quarrellers?

Any advice?

boogeyman wrote:Nothing for the dwarfs. They would just would get out manuevered. What if I went even heavier gunline and dropped the block of warriors for 2 units of 10 quarrellers?

Playing both as and against heavy gunlines is boring. Dwarfs also do have severe issues being outmaneuvered even if they can't be march blocked. I have seen some people play successful aggressive non-gunline Dwarfs but I'm not too familiar with it.

Alternate dwarf list.

Dwarfs
Thane - MR of gromril, rune of resistance, perservation, furnace, GW, and oathstone = 159
Thane - MR of swiftness, rune of fury, cleaving, stone, shield, and oathstone = 162
10x quarrellers w/ shields = 120
10x quarrellers w/ shields = 120
10x quarreller rangers w/ shields = 150
14x hammerers w/ shields and command, with rune of courage = 242
14x hammerers w/ shields and command, with rune of stoicism = 237
bolt thrower w/ engineer w/ brace of pistols and rune of penetrating and burning = 95
bolt thrower w/ engineer w/ handgun and MR of skewering = 95
organ gun = 120
total = 1500

At least the oathstones would take away all the flank charges and an extra dd against them. Problem would be that those two units of hammerers would be stuck there for the rest of the game.

I was also thinking of changing a unit of glade riders into a 5x unit of waywatchers for the WE.

Any more thoughts?

The unit that *least* needs the oathstone are hammerers, especially since you've quite wisely made them either immune or resistant to fear with the runic banners. They don't care if they get hit in the flanks, basically.

In theory, I quite like the concept of the oathstone, and I really like the fluff, but I've found it to be really useful to hop characters back and forth between units as threats close in. With an oathstone, the thane is stuck in the unit he's selected, and no one else can come to help either.

If you're attached to the rangers, then keep them, but if you're not, you could swap them out, drop the oathstones, drop the weapons off the engineers and make them a block of 20 Dwarf warriors.

If you drop skewering, you could make one of the thanes a BSB.

Of course, I'm creeping you towards a combat list, which is my preference. It's a little more fun for both players in my experience.

Also, the more combat oriented you get, the more attractive the rune of challenge becomes. The trick ends up being- where to get the points, and who drops some nice runes to get it.

RZ

Combat Dwarfs are much more fun in comparison to gunlines, though of course do suffer more against highly-mobile armies like mobility-focused Dark Elf and Wood Elf lists.

Hmmm no gunline.

Thane - MR of Gromril, resistance, preservation, and furnace = 139
Thane - BSB, MR of Grungni = 140
Dragon Slayer - MR of swiftness, 2x fury = 125

10x warriors w/ shields = 90
10x warriors w/ shields = 90
15x longbeard rangers w/ shields, throwing axes, and com. = 265

14x hammerers w/ shields, command, and courage = 242
14x hammerers w/ shields, command, and stoicism = 237
14x slayers w/ giant slayer = 169

total = 1497

No gunline. I know, I know, I have throwing axes. Forgive me.

Sorry, but you've gone a bit too far the other way now. A war machine or one unit of shooting can serve to encourage them to fight you.

I really only like to put runes on the BSB if I can't put them elsewhere- like Strollaz. I'm interested to see how this one works out for you, though. A mobile 5+ ward shield might be kind of handy.

If you find you need points for something else, I'd drop the runes on the dragon slayer. At 50 points, he's really efficient and disposable. At 125, you hate to lose him.

But having said that, I hate to homogenize lists too much- so take something a little off kilter and let us know how it does...

RZ

yea I know I went overboard.

I think I will actually use that second list minus the 2 bolt throwers and add the naked dragon slayer and unit of slayers. Oh and get rid of the oathstones too.

Who am I kidding, I will probably play one of the elf lists.

boogeyman wrote:Who am I kidding, I will probably play one of the elf lists.

While I am a fan of Dwarfs, I'd probably do this until their new army book comes out.