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Hi All, first post on the forum so really Nice to write to you all.
I'm Ivan, from Italy, I've been a unnamed reader for a while (mostly for the modelling and painting section) and finally I registered an account.

In fact me and a close number of friend are coming back on the game (40k) in occasion of some new codex published or soon available.


First of all please be patient about my English.
Second please take a look of the following 2000p. (convertible in 1750 and 1850) Tyranid list.

We will not play ultra-competitive but because we have some member that will participate at some tourney, we follow the rules of the games-to-play month per month.

QG - Tyrant - paroxism, leech essence, ancient enemy, 2x scyt., inoculate, toxin sacs and glands, wings.
280

QG - Tyranid Primus - sword and whip, deathspitter, glands and toxin sacs, regen.
130

Elite - 2x Hive Guards
100

Elite - 2x Zoanthrope
120

Elite - 1x Lictor
65

Troops - 4x Warriors - 3x deathspitters, 1x strangler
145

Troops - 10x Termagant.
50

Troops - Tervigone - scyt. talons.
165

Troops - 12x Termagant.
60

Troops - 8x Genestealers - Broodlord, 8x toxin sacs.
182

Troops - 8x Genestealers - Broodlord, 8x toxin sacs.
182

Heavy - Trygon Primus.
240

Heavy - Multifex - 1 pair of scyt. talons, byoplasma and the new cannon stranglethorn (you know waht I mean.. I don't know how do you call it in English)



My first necessity is to not spend a lot of money to return in some easy-game when I've already 2500+ points available.

Some doubts about the Zoanthropes survival and in case to substitute the Trygon Primus with a normal one to gain one mycetic spore for the 2 brains.
They will arrive safe "in-place" (thanks to the Lictor) and they will have at least 1 turn of psyonic throw, but after? this doesn't gonna change a lot and the risk is to finally have the 2 Zoanthropes dead and the Trygon not-synaptic all alone before the arrive of the biggest part of the army.


Variants:

One Mawloc instead of the Trygon Primus. -70p
Erase one complete Genestealer brood. -182p
Tot. 1747p.

One normal Trygon insteat of the Primus. -40p
Erase one complete Genestealer brood. -182p
Add 12x Hormagaunts, 72p.
Tot. 1849p.



C&C really welcome.

Tactical problems even more, The last time I played the rules were reeeeeaaaaally differents.


Toban

Drop toxin on your HQs. They would make your performance worse.

Tervigon needs catalyst.

tokugawa wrote:Drop toxin on your HQs. They would make your performance worse.

Tervigon needs catalyst.

Hi and Tanks for the reply.

Catalyst on the Tervigon is great but only if in combo with toxins and glands. Don't you think it will be a waste of points on a model that will stay all the time on my objective? Or do you think that the FNP rule is enough?
I'm scared abount the "double-roll". If it stop to generate Termies they will be 35p lost.

Drop sacs on both your HQs regeneration is pretty useless only anything with less than 6 wounds.

Tervigon NEEDS toxins sacs and adrenal glands ALWAYS. No point in taking it if you are not going to boost nearby Termagants. Termagants need to be in bigger units if you want catalyst or it needs to be cast on the Warriors it is of very dubious benefit to MCs. I'd advise bigger units of Termagants anyway. Also with the Tervigon like most MCs you need duel threat and with the chance of the models spawning ending on a double you need another Tervigon in there too. In general I'd only take Tervigons if you are going to commit to them and take at least 2 (preferably 3-4) andf large broods of Termagants.

Not enough ranged anti-tranport in this points level. 2 Hive Guard and 2 Zoanthropes won't cut it. Not sure what the lictor will really do for you in this list.

Trygon Prime will die the turn it arrives. Needs to be used in pairs or will never do anything. If you are already spedning 240 points on it 10 points for adrenal glands just gives you that nice increase in assault against Landraiders.

FlingitNow wrote:Drop sacs on both your HQs regeneration is pretty useless only anything with less than 6 wounds.

Tervigon NEEDS toxins sacs and adrenal glands ALWAYS. No point in taking it if you are not going to boost nearby Termagants. Termagants need to be in bigger units if you want catalyst or it needs to be cast on the Warriors it is of very dubious benefit to MCs. I'd advise bigger units of Termagants anyway. Also with the Tervigon like most MCs you need duel threat and with the chance of the models spawning ending on a double you need another Tervigon in there too. In general I'd only take Tervigons if you are going to commit to them and take at least 2 (preferably 3-4) andf large broods of Termagants.

Not enough ranged anti-tranport in this points level. 2 Hive Guard and 2 Zoanthropes won't cut it. Not sure what the lictor will really do for you in this list.

Trygon Prime will die the turn it arrives. Needs to be used in pairs or will never do anything. If you are already spedning 240 points on it 10 points for adrenal glands just gives you that nice increase in assault against Landraiders.

Hi and Tanks for the reply.


I will try to explain you my tactics idea:

- Lictor is important mostly for one reason, the ferohormon trace (you know what I mean). This will let me send in DS attack without deviations the Trygon Prime (or even better one normal Trygon and the 2 Zoe in a mycetic spore). This will let also to planify a good tactic position for the spawning-tunnel.

Consider the army divided in 5 groups.
n.1 - Lictor - Trygon - eventually the Zoe-Pod.
n.2 - Flyrant + Gargs immediately hunting LR, high str. area weapons or special carachters.
n.3 - 12 termies (just shielding the first turn), Carnifex, Zoes if not in one spore, hive guards, Tyr. Primus join the warriors all advancing vs the bigger core of the enemy army. Note that this group can bi splitted in very different ways if necessary placing the primus here and the warrior there and the Zoes to another destinatios etc etc..
n.4 - Tervigone with 10 termies (just shielding the first turn).
n.5 - the 2 Broods of Genestealers with Lords that can be lined up in very differents ways like infiltration, DS or just as RES from my table board (so close to my obj.).

I will take seriously your advices about the combo catalyst+toxins+glands on the Terv. but about bigger units of terms I'm full of doubts. IF the Terv. just gonna do his work generating bugs for at least a pair of turns everything will be nice, in anycase if it stop to give birth one choice in-between Warriors, Hive Guards, Gargs, Carnifex and even the Flyrant can come back on my mission obj.

What about anti-tank/transport?
I thought that a CC Flyrant, one Carnifex with the new 36" VP5 weapon (and close the bioplasma), 2x Zoes, 2x Hive Guards and a barbed strangler on the warrior Units (that will throw optimally with the Tyr.Primus Balistic ability) can give some problems on a lot of vehicles.. at least blocking/stunning.

Is it totally wrong?

- Lictor is important mostly for one reason, the ferohormon trace (you know what I mean). This will let me send in DS attack without deviations the Trygon Prime (or even better one normal Trygon and the 2 Zoe in a mycetic spore). This will let also to planify a good tactic position for the spawning-tunnel.

There is no guarantee the Lictor will come on first or before your im[portant units so that special rule is largely redundant for anything except a Mawloc (as it can arrive first re-burrow and by the time it comes back the Lictor should be on the board).

n.1 - Lictor - Trygon - eventually the Zoe-Pod.
n.2 - Flyrant + Gargs immediately hunting LR, high str. area weapons or special carachters.
n.3 - 12 termies (just shielding the first turn), Carnifex, Zoes if not in one spore, hive guards, Tyr. Primus join the warriors all advancing vs the bigger core of the enemy army. Note that this group can bi splitted in very different ways if necessary placing the primus here and the warrior there and the Zoes to another destinatios etc etc..
n.4 - Tervigone with 10 termies (just shielding the first turn).
n.5 - the 2 Broods of Genestealers with Lords that can be lined up in very differents ways like infiltration, DS or just as RES from my table board (so close to my obj.).

You don't have any Gargoyles listed? The Tervigon is a waste fo points if it is just sitting on the objective spwaning. You're probably better off just having extra Termagants there. Could work but it will be targeted and then of the gants will run away. A unit of gants sat there will draw less fire, and divert fewer point away from your main offensive.

Stealers can't DS and there is no value in having them walk on from your board edge. Inflitrate them or outflank them. outflanking works great. With your list you could then have a large portion in reserve. In which case get Hive Commander on the Tyrant so they will turn up on bulk in turn 2. Scything Talons are a total waste on him with Old Adversary as he gets re-rolls to hit anyway. Get a bonesword and Lash on him and then take a pair of devourers so he can DS in and cause havoc with his shooting before charging into CC the following turn.

I will take seriously your advices about the combo catalyst+toxins+glands on the Terv. but about bigger units of terms I'm full of doubts. IF the Terv. just gonna do his work generating bugs for at least a pair of turns everything will be nice, in anycase if it stop to give birth one choice in-between Warriors, Hive Guards, Gargs, Carnifex and even the Flyrant can come back on my mission obj.

Do you want to direct these big hitters from your main assault? A small unit of Termagants can hold the objective and then just redirect DSing units or fliers back if he drops in to take the objective off you. A good tactic can be to hold that Termagant unit in reserve so turn 1 DP assaults are wasted against them. You don't need them walking on until later anyway... Or you can have the objective right on the end of your deployment Zone and hold it with the Hive Guard who should be able to still be in range whilst hanging back.

I thought that a CC Flyrant, one Carnifex with the new 36" VP5 weapon (and close the bioplasma), 2x Zoes, 2x Hive Guards and a barbed strangler on the warrior Units (that will throw optimally with the Tyr.Primus Balistic ability) can give some problems on a lot of vehicles.. at least blocking/stunning.

Zoanthropes will worry vehicles but are short ranged and can be nullified by libbies. Hive Guard are good but there's simply not enough of them to worry an all mech list. You can't rely on CC especially if you are against Eldar Wave Serpents they will fly rings around you whilst giggling histerically and then tank shock you off all the objectives in turn 5 (and again in turn 6 should it be required and again...). Also against SW razorback armies you've just not got enough firepower to take down transports.

So what do you think abount something like this:

QG - Flyrant - paroxism, leech essence, Old Adversary, Hive Commander, sword and whip, twin-linked brainsucker! dev., wings.
295

QG - Tyr. Prime - sword and whip, adrenal glands.
105

Elite - 2x Hive Guards.
100

Elite - 2x Zoes - mycetic spore.
160

Troops - 3x Warrior - venom cannon.
105

Troops - 8x Stealers - Broodlord, 8x toxin sacs.
182

Troops - 8x Stealers - Broodlord, 8x toxin sacs.
182

Troops - 13x Termies.
65

Troops - 13x Termies.
65

Troops - 14x Termies.
70

Fast - 10x Gargs.
60

Heavy - Trygon Prime - Adrenal glands.
250

Heavy - Mawloc - Adrenal glands.
180

Heavy - Carnifex - 1 pair scyt. talons, new stranglethorn cannon (you know waht I mean.. I still don't know how do you call it in English)
180

tot. still 1999p.


Or deleting the Tyr. Prime adding the third Zoe to the spore and growing the termies at 16+16+17 elements.

I still consider Termies so so delicates.

The Tyranid Prime needs a gun if he's joining the venomcannon warriors (presumably with deathspitters?). I'd prefer the barbed strngler to venom cannon always, just donl't think it really does well against anything.

Flyrant is nice. Join the Prime to the warriors and they can outflank with the stealers using Hive commander.

Give all you Gargoyles toxin sacs! Then watch Wraithlords cry as your 70 point unit takes it to peices!

I don't think adrenal glands are worth it on the Mawloc he only has 3 attacks and Ws3 he's pretty lame except when coming on through DS. Keep him doing that he shouldn't be charging anyone really. If someone castles against you then the Mawloc will have fun!!

It is called a Carnifex by the way and if anything should be dropped for more fire power it should go. They are just a little overpriced in the new codex compared to Trygons and Mawlocs. It is also the only MC you have not arriving from reserve so will be easily singled out by the enemy on turn 1 for death. Drop it get more Hive guard and Zoanthropes would be my advice.

Ok, so finally the good list. I hope.

QG - Flyrant - parox, leech essence, old adversary, hive comm., sword & whip, TL Dev., wings.
295 p.
QG - Tyr. Prime - sword & whip, deathspitter, adr. glands.
110 p.

EL - 2x hive guards.
100 p.
EL - 2x hive guards.
100 p.
EL - 3x Zoant. - mycetic spore.
220 p.

TR - 3x warriors - 2x deathspitter, 1x barb. strangler.
110 p.
TR - 8x Stealers - Broodlords, 8x toxin sacs.
182 p.
TR - 8x Stealers - Broodlords, 8x toxin sacs.
182 p.
TR - 14x Term.
70 p.
TR - 14x Term.
70 p.

FA - 10x Gargs - 10x Toxin sacs.
70 p.
FA - 10x Gargs - 10x Toxin sacs.
70 p.

HE - Trygon - Adrenal Glands.
210 p.
HE - Trygon - Adrenal Glands.
210 p.

Tot. 1999




I'm gonna give it a chance.

By the way I'm feeling naked without at least a Carnifex on the table..