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A marine bike player wants to conduct a multi-charge. In order to pull it off he turns a bike sideways for the initial charge move. This prevents a bike from being able to get into BTB with a model from that unit and thus frees it up to begin the multi-charge on the unit immediately adajcent to the declared assault target. I would argue this is not legal because the rules dictate that you must take the shortest route and if you pivot the front of the base, or the side of the base which makes contact, is actually taking a longer route.

olympia wrote:A marine bike player wants to conduct a multi-charge. In order to pull it off he turns a bike sideways for the initial charge move. This prevents a bike from being able to get into BTB with a model from that unit and thus frees it up to begin the multi-charge on the unit immediately adajcent to the declared assault target. I would argue this is not legal because the rules dictate that you must take the shortest route and if you pivot the front of the base, or the side of the base which makes contact, is actually taking a longer route.

You take the shortest route only for the initial model that assaults the target unit. All other models are free to rotate, move sideways, do barrel rolls, loop-de-loops and other general asshattery, provided they follow the rules on page 34 for moving assaulting models (they have to get into btb first, if not then into btb with enemy already in btb etc etc etc.)

So yeah, he can't do that with the INITIAL model, but other models are permitted to. If he wanted to do that, he should have rotated it in the Movement phase.

You don't even need bikes to pull it off:
After moving the first model you start moving the models which are furthest away, they have to go around the models in between which slows them down.
Then you move the middle of the unit and they find their way impeded by the models that have already moved.
If it's done like this you can even claim that each model has moved the shortest route available to him.

It's legal & a little cheeky. It used to be legal & downright dirty in 4th edition, defenders couldn't react to assaults and killzones were a big factor in CC. It allowed high init troops to clear their killzone and get zero returning attacks.

Gwar! wrote: All other models are free to rotate, move sideways, do barrel rolls, loop-de-loops and other general asshattery, provided they follow the rules on page 34 for moving assaulting models (they have to get into btb first, if not then into btb with enemy already in btb etc etc etc.)

Fox! Do a barrel roll!

olympia wrote: In order to pull it off he turns a bike sideways for the initial charge move. This prevents a bike from being able to get into BTB with a model from that unit

...and is therefore an illegal move. Models must get into btb contact if possible.

unless theyre prevented from doing so by an earlier legally made assault move ... or multi assaults would never work, as youd not be allowed to set up the circumstances to achieve it, as you "MUST" get them all into b2b ... lol ridiculous arguement.

My reading of it (with some interpolation)

Is that his Bike squad assaulted Unit A,

When he got to bikemodel3, it could reach unit A and unit B. If he turned it sideways, it could only reach unit B.

THe trick is, that was totally unecessary.
If he could get into base with B, and do it while maintaining coherency with already moved models.... then it doesn't matter if he can reach unitA.

For whatever reason, some folks believe you have to get as much into base with unit A, before being allowed to asault unit B. This is not true.

I need to do a better job explaining how it went down.

X
X = marine bikes on large bases (so two Xs represent one bike)

A = enemy unit A
B = enemy unit B


initial set up

X...X....X....X
X...X....X....X

A....A...A.A...B...B


So you see that the charge is declared against unit 'A' and that the four marine bikes can all hit four models in unit A. However, if you turn the second bike from the right sideways and charge it contacts
the two models of unit A on the right and thus the last marine bike can multi-charge unit B because it cannot get into base contact with a model from unit A.

It would be legal to turn sideways, but it is completely unnecessary. You do not have to charge everyone in unit A before you go on to B.

If you want to mess with your assault moves by deliberately keeping your back models out of base contact so that they can move over to unit B, this is a good way to do it.

thebetter1 wrote:It would be legal to turn sideways, but it is completely unnecessary. You do not have to charge everyone in unit A before you go on to B.

I suppose you could use it to build a bridge to allow you to multiassault a distant unit, as you can move the model that can't get engaged in a way that the model you do use to charge B stays in coherency with a moved model.

As lpong as the model you are moving cannot get in btb with the unit you are trying to assault first, it can be moved to build the bridge / directly assault the second unit.

If it can reach BtB with the first unit, it MUST do so.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If it can reach BtB with the first unit, it MUST do so.

It's actually any enemy model it can legally get to, including those in other units, if I'm reading it right.

Don't forget he has to move as many bikes within 2" as possible as well before he can begin "moving wherever he wants", unless he is also able to engage an enemy model from the other unit he is charging while being w/in 2" of a model already engaged with the previous.

mon-keigh slayer wrote:unless theyre prevented from doing so by an earlier legally made assault move ... or multi assaults would never work, as youd not be allowed to set up the circumstances to achieve it, as you "MUST" get them all into b2b ... lol ridiculous arguement.

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here. My point was that models must get into btb if possible, so deliberately moving that model in such a way that it doesn't make it into btb is an illegal move. I have no idea what that has to do with multi assaults.

nosferatu1001 wrote:If it can reach BtB with the first unit, it MUST do so.

There is no requirement to get into btb with the initial unit specifically. You have to get into btb with an enemy model if possible, and you have to maintain coherency. It's only the first charging model that specifically has to charge the declared target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

olympia wrote:initial set up

X...X....X....X
X...X....X....X

A....A...A.A...B...B


So you see that the charge is declared against unit 'A' and that the four marine bikes can all hit four models in unit A. However, if you turn the second bike from the right sideways and charge it contacts
the two models of unit A on the right and thus the last marine bike can multi-charge unit B because it cannot get into base contact with a model from unit A.

So you're saying that you turn the bike sideways in order to block the next bike from getting into contact with unit A?

If that's the case, yes, it's legal, but not necessary. So long as coherency is maintained, you could move the last bike onto unit B anyway.

Yes, I recall my earlier statement - if you can move straight into btb with an enemy model you can do so, as long as you arent the first model to move.

Is this a correctly conducted multi-assault?

Bikers declare an assault on the "green" orks.



Closest model is moved by the shortest route possible in btb.



Two more bikers are moved for giggles (please note the one marked A)



The fourth bikers assaults the "red" orks in such a way that he still maintains unit coherency



The two remaining bikers assaults the "red" orks (please assume the distance between the bikers marked X and Y is 2" or less)




1. Is this a legal assault?

2. Did the biker marked A even have to assault the "green" orks or could he have assaulted the "red" ones (assuming he kept unit coherency)?

1. Yes, as long as you come into contact with a non-engaged enemy and stay in coherency, you can assault either unit.

2. Assuming he could stay in coherency and assault a new model, then yes.

EDIT: Clarity

Steelmage99 wrote:1. Is this a legal assault?

Assuming that everyone in the bike unit winds up in coherency, yes.

2. Did the biker marked A even have to assault the "green" orks or could he have assaulted the "red" ones (assuming he kept unit coherency)?

Once again, there is no requirement for any model after the first to move into contact with the declared target unit. They simply have to move into btb with an enemy model if possible.

So assuming that he could maintain coherency with another biker who had already moved, it would be perfectly legal to move A onto the red Orks.

hmm insaniak, i meant like if you were assault a line of ig chimeras set in a line with an inch or so of space between them so you cna only r4eally get at the front armor. T

the first bike assaults sideways and mostly covers the front, might need a second bike in there i cant crecall how long bike bases are.everything after can assault whatever chimera they can while maintaining coherancy no? This example is assuming that the layout of the tanks i described ewould make the 2 bikes enough to give the bike no legal way into the inital target chimera.

MKS:

The bikes don't need to turn sideways at all to block off the Chimera. As long as the closest bike assaults the Chimera that was shot at, the rest of the bikes can engage an enemy following that they:

a) Remain in coherency

and

b) Assault an unengaged model, if there is one available

So, if you have three Chimeras, with 1" in between them, and you shot at the middle one, the closest bike must assault that Chimera. After that, the rest of the bikes just have to remain in coherency. They don't have to assault the other Chimeras (unless they are a squadron, but I don't know if you can have squadrons of chimeras...) unless the assaulting player decides to, but if he does, he only has to maintain coherency within his unit. He doesn't have to make the first Chimera unassaultable (I don't think that's even a word...).