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Hi guys.

I've got to go on 2000 points against a 'loganwing' army.

this is my opponents army list.

1 logan grimnar

10 wolf guard terminators, 2 w/ cyclone M. Launchers

5 wolf guard, in LR redeemer

6 Long fangs, 4 LC 1 Plasma cannon, 1 wolf guard, logan grimnar attached.

10 grey hunters. Rhino

10 grey hunters. Rhino

I was going to go with:

Chapter master
Thunder hammer
Storm shield
Artificier Armour

185

Honour guard
10 men

Relic blades, Chapter banner, Auxilliary grenade launcher
Artificier armour, Power armour, Bolter, Power sword.
675 points

Tactical squad
10 men, Plasma cannon, Plasma rifle, Rhino
10 men, Plasma cannon, Plasma rifle, Rhino

Land raider: extra armour
275 points

Vindicator
Siege shield, 125 points

Fast Attack
Land speeder, Typhoon M. Launcher Multi-melta
100 points

Elite
Venerable dreadnought
Plasma cannon
Extra armour
190 points

The LR will take the Honour guard and the CM.

Thoughts? what should I change?

Help!

PN: I'm doing a bet-game, so I can't remove the honour guard.

Your chapter master has a 10 man honor guard?! I think those points could better spent on some extra power weapons thrown in here and there. power weapons own terminators for a fraction of the price.

Fair enough... but I like the 2+ to wound from Relic blades (power weapons.)

But thanks for the input.

just curious? do you have access to lots more figs? The reason I ask is that you will not beat the wolfwing (or loganwing whatever you call it) on quality, they are simply better/cheaper marines and there's not much that can be done about that. Fortunately he is dumping massive points into his wolf guard, and honestly I always thought terminators were kind of lame when under massed amounts of dice. But anyhoo... by reducing a lot of the upgrades you could overwhelm them with quantity. Lots of tactical squads means lots of potential weapons combos. The plasma cannon is a good choice but he will probably be spread out so the blast is kind of over-rated when against an army of superior troops in small numbers like his. Missiles are great at wacking armored troops though, and you can't argue with their price (free! yay!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
really the only AT problem is his land raider but you can zap that with your land raider, or maybe a lascannon thrown in a tactical squad. You have to worry about all the heavy infantry which means power weapons and plasma rifles are your friends

thanks. that's pretty good.

It's a problem though, I couldn't take more then 30 marines. minus master.

What about firepower? this guy has a real problem, and often packs his terminators in close.

Blast markers aren't the problem, and what about logan. I'm thinking overwhelming attacks in close.

Ill just stat what a chaos player swears every time he plays my Wolves "Never get in Close with the space puppies!"

Don't try to win in close combat, you probably won't. I've seen 400-600 point vangaurd squads loose to Bloodclaws and Greyhunters. Its just nasty. Best bet is to weaken the holy crap out of him before he gets in close, and one of the best ways is AP2 (plasma cannons and plasma guns, Meltaguns) or just alot of Dakka. The more saves you make him take, the more models he will loose...the less effective he can be once he gets to you, cause bets is, he will get to you

I would just avoid logan as best as possible. Don't even bother trying to kill him, just let him have his one drop-and-change landraider dropoff, eat your loss, and kill the transport, leaving him footslogging. That's why I figure a more spread-out kind of army with no obvious "kill-me-first" signs on them would work better... yay... Logan killed a tac squad and spent the rest of the game slogging around useless. They hit hard but then they just stand around thinking "um... now what do we do?" while you run rings around them and occupy objectives.

Well really logan won't be to much of a problem if he stays attached to the longfang cause they like all heavy weapon squads can't move and shot. So as long as he's attached he probably wont go anywhere. Still trying to figure out why logans attached to them at all, I guess to put wounds on him but other then that i see no real reason to have him there, because of that i assume that he's not the most expierenced or the opposite and hes so awesome i can't even understand his reasoning but either way id say ignore logan and the long fang with by just shotting at them and focus on the wolfguard

if you are restricted on the numbers, maybe up the armor to compensate? He has like 40 guys on the table, why do you only get 30? plus yours are worse than his and his are cheaper than yours...

Logan generally goes with the long fangs because he has a rule where he can give them relentless. This means they can pod in 5 MMs, fire that turn thanks to relentless, and absorb bullets for Logan. Then logan can roll off on his own next turn to smash face, possible joining up with another unit from a pod.

Captain Solon wrote:thanks. that's pretty good.

It's a problem though, I couldn't take more then 30 marines. minus master.

What about firepower? this guy has a real problem, and often packs his terminators in close.

Blast markers aren't the problem, and what about logan. I'm thinking overwhelming attacks in close.

Razorbacks.
CM + 5 HG in a Plasma Back.
LIB + 5 HG in a Plasma Back
Troops in groups of 5 in Stronos 'Backs.

out shoot him.

by up the armor I mean more tanks. Sorry for misconception.

I really like ur army list but not his, as it is way too... (how to say cheese nicely)

Orkestra wrote:Logan generally goes with the long fangs because he has a rule where he can give them relentless. This means they can pod in 5 MMs, fire that turn thanks to relentless, and absorb bullets for Logan. Then logan can roll off on his own next turn to smash face, possible joining up with another unit from a pod.

You forgot about the Long Fang Pack Leader with his Melta Gun and Thor jr.

logan needs a good hit in the face from a melta hammer... but in more helpful advice, long fang squad he runs with? thats a lot of points with 1 wound each. Just a thought.

That is what Logan and Arjak are for, you can have them take the big gun hits and will m ostly likey Save vs them, both have Saga of the Bear [Eternal Warrior] the only sure way to wipe out the Long Fangs are Pie and that is not good in your back yard.

I love pie in my back yard! I don't think logan and arjac will both be running with the long fangs will they? If not, shoot a lot and watch him roll 1's for that longfang squad. using a character as a shield for a squad is just asking for luck to do what it will... and kill the IC. Either way, the more fire dumped on them the better.

@Skip:

HG don't get combat squads.

Trying to out cc him w/ that loadout is foolish- that is playing to the SW strengths and not the SMs. If you want to go that route, buy lots of TH/SS terminators in LRs w/Vulkan for mastercrafting and just smash his face.

For closer to your setup, plasma is good. Take Las/plas RBs for your tac squads. I would shy away from plasma in the squads due to overheat and stick with LCs to snipe from range. Maybe a meltagun in case anything gets too close. Landspeeders can pack Typhoon OR MM. I like dual MM for armor hunting. Ideal for targets like LRs. With the dread, I wouldn't bother with ven and the BS doesn't help the PC much. Just take a regular with PC and keep behind some cover. Maybe 2. If you want to upgrade go Ironclad since they pack melta and can contribute more to CC should you need help. And they +1 arm makes a big difference against things like LCs.

The vindi is nice, but short ranged. Better to take a pair. Works well if you can nuke the LR w/MM speeder, too!

What do you mean "bet" game? Do you have to take honour gurd? If so, that sucks- they are way overpriced for what they do. Maybe just take a min bodyguard squad and hang back and throw orbital strikes from a rhino or something? Because if you try to tool them up for CC, you are paying out the nose!

yeah I was curious about that too.

what is a "bet" game?

(other than the obvious... did he "bet" you he could beat your ridiculously big honor guard he makes you take despite all logical sense, while restricting your number of infantry? Just to prove Space Wolves have an even more broken codex than your own?)

Sorry, doesn't make much sense to take that bet. Space Wolves have supermightyheros by the truckload, whereas marines have... um... a few of them... but can't put them all in one army. The numbers is your advantage and he wants to bet you on his terms at what his army is good at. Not a good bet IMO.

"Logan and Njal and Arjac and Ragnar and... and... Loki... oops Lukas... (whatever)all in the same army are WAAAAY better than your generic chapter master and honor guard... Logan's crew is WAAAAy better than yours, and I'll prove it! just as long as you don't overwhelm me with numbers. MY DAD IS BIGGER THAN YOUR DAD.. GO LOGAN!"

"hmm... yeah you're probably right, do I have to use the honor guard though just so you can prove yourself right?"

"yes. My army's awesomeness is greater than yours and I seek to prove it by restricting your army's advantages while playing up to mine. No more than 30 Marines on the table for you, while mine are all superheros! mwaahaahaaaa!"


that's how I envision this 'bet' came about. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Well if killing the 10 wolfgaurd terminators is your top priority go with 9 sterngaurd with combi plasmas and a librarian with null zone. 18 plasma shots=12 hits=10 wounds re-roll all successful invos.

yeah but dude is stuck with having to take that giant dumb honor guard squad... how is he gonna fit all that sternguard in there?

I'm actually just about to have a space wolves(me) Vs. Eldar(good friend) and although i do us my heroes i really don't like the way this battle (forum) looks like it is set up to be. If you can't win a game without having even terms then whats the real point it does not in anyway prove your better then them. Just shows your an ass who only knows how to play one part of the army because you can't think of actual strategies to take out people that would other wise destroy you.

The rules I live by are Codex. If it's not Codex it doesn't exist to me. Anything within the Codex, or force org involved is fine, because that is the way the game was written. Wierd alternate rules, experimental FW stuff, arbitrary restrictions ("okay I'll play you but no Falcon this time.") is like playing chess without your queen.

The Marines would clearly have an advantage if they were allowed to use their numbers, while the Space Wolves lord around with their ridiculous heros and stuff. Restricting the numbers, but making someone take a 10 man honor guard just to prove your heros are better than his?! If it's in the codex, it's the rule, and force org exists for a reason (so SW can break it? no, no not that reason...). Games with selective rules are kind of pointless as challenges... especially when the guy with the "hero" army makes a stipulation about the numbers.

jmurph wrote:Landspeeders can pack Typhoon OR MM.

What have you been smoking?

I'm not trying to take a tornado/typhoon, I can exchange the heavy bolter for a Multi-melta.

"Any land speeder may replace it's heavy bolter with...:"
[...]
multi-melta[...]+10 points
"any land speeder may be upgraded with one of the following"
Typhoon missile launcher
[...]
Multi-melta[...]20 points

Read before you leap

I think what jmurph means is that your Land Speeder lacks focus. Either give it a Multi-melta and have it rush forward and take out heavy armour, or give it a Typhoon ML and have it sit back and snipe.

If you have to take that horribly over-costed, points sink Honour Guard, the rest of your army needs to compensate.
Get rid of:
Chapter Master
Dreadnought
Land Speeder
Vindicator

Take:
Pedro Kantor
3 x Land Speeders w/MM, in separate FA slots
2 x Sternguard Vets in Rhinos w/2 x Plasma Cannons
Lascannons in your tactical squads

Find the points for these. This way you can still take your Honour Guard, have a better chance of taking out heavy armour with the speeders and light armour with the lascannons, and can destroy the contents with all those scoring plasma cannons.

Also, does every Honour Guard have a Relic Blade and AGL? Because that's crazy. Take 2-3 at most, they already come with Power Weapons for goodness sake.

remember its a 'bet' game though. I think he has to take that ludicrous Honor Guard in order to square off against the Wolf Guard. Not really a fair matchup.

now that it's over, I'll just note.

the honour guard took out 2 full squads of wolfguard and the longfangs (including mr. grimnar.) before dieing.