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For special weapon spamming, I'm not sure why you would take a Veteran squad over a PCS. The PCS's superior numbers means that you'll get the same number of hits against a target on average but you have more potential for killing because of the extra weapon.

When you factor in the cheaper price of the squad and the option for Orders, it seems like the better buy.

Its true that Veterans have more bodies to absorb firepower but both units are reliant on their transport of choice to be their main protection.

Problem with the Platoon Command Squad is the 2 Infantry Squads you have to buy with it. Unless you want a large infantry blob on footwith comissar, the infantry squads are rather lack luster if running a full mech list. They are BS3 and can only get 1 special weapon so are not very killy.

Veteran squads also can buy a heavy weapon so you can have the 3 special weapons and 1 heavy weapon which is equal to the Platoon Command Squads 4 specials as long as you did not move.

I like them for different things.

Ive been using a PCS with 3 flamers and 1 melta and a primaris psyker to go hunt big groups of things... the 1 melta should probably be an additional flamer but i throw it in there cause maybe ill run into a vehicle and get lucky.

I prefer to hunt harder targets with vets, terminators or harder vehicles etc.

Avariel wrote:Problem with the Platoon Command Squad is the 2 Infantry Squads you have to buy with it. Unless you want a large infantry blob on footwith comissar, the infantry squads are rather lack luster if running a full mech list. They are BS3 and can only get 1 special weapon so are not very killy.

Veteran squads also can buy a heavy weapon so you can have the 3 special weapons and 1 heavy weapon which is equal to the Platoon Command Squads 4 specials as long as you did not move.

that's why i usually run 2 PCS(if any). 1 baby sets the PIS and the other races around in it's chimera.

at the OP:
why not have both?

I don't use PCS, becasue I don't want to get stuck with the squads you have to buy with them. They cut into the points I want for vehicles in my Mech Vets list, and they don't have useful vehicles on the move.

If I could just buy the PCS, then sure, I would take them over vets with Flamers, but since I have to buy the scrubs too, no thanks

and don't forget the higher BS of the Vets...

2 vet squads w/3x melta (4 melta hits per turn) = 200 pts

PCS w/ 4x melta, 2 PIS w/ 1 melta apiece ( 4 melta hits per turn) = 190pts

The platoons give you three times the scoring units and over twice the number of bodies, and bring along orders orders, for the same amount of special weapons firepower (more firepower over all) for fewer points.

I think the only reason people would ever take veterans is for lists that are pro-fluff. After all, it's really hard to do air cav with whole platoons, and taking all those troops in all those transports can cause a traffic jam pretty quickly. That or if you have a small number of points that you want to spend on special weapons, and you can't afford another entire platoon. Plus, in order to get the same amount of firepower with the platoon, you have to be disciplined enough to keep all of the units in the same place at the same time, and the temptation to let individual units wander off (this giving the platoon less local firepower at any given time than the vets) is usually pretty strong.

That and it's also cheaper moneywise to field vets, and requires much less time to assemble and paint. This probably has as much to do with it as people who want their armies to feel "elite" (but don't want to do it proper with SMs).

Ailaros wrote:2 vet squads w/3x melta (4 melta hits per turn) = 200 pts

PCS w/ 4x melta, 2 PIS w/ 1 melta apiece ( 4 melta hits per turn) = 190pts

Firts, your math is off...the PCS + 2 PIS only average 3 hits, not 4.
Then, you also have to buy 3 transports instead of 2 in order to use the meltas, thus upping their cost. So, more points for fewer hits...that is bad if you are tying to find points for other killy units.


The only place a PCS outshines Vets is 4 flamers compares to 3; even then, 4 flamers comperd to 2 flamers + a heavy is a close call, depending on the opponent....then you still have to take the 2x PIS. For some lists, Platoons are good, for others, they eat up valuable points that are better spenton Vets and vehicles.

Alerian wrote:PCS + 2 PIS only average 3 hits, not 4.

Oop, my bad. So you get slightly more firepower for slightly more points. All those other PIS benefits are still there, though.

Alerian wrote:Then, you also have to buy 3 transports instead of 2 in order to use the meltas

Right, as said, if you want to run a mechanized list, I could see taking lots of PISs would be sort of a headache as far as movement and deployment is concerned. Otherwise, PISs still have the advantage. Vets can be seen as a specialized unit for a group of special guard play styles, in typical infantry and mixed lists, I can't think of many reasons why vets would be better.

The only place a PCS outshines Vets is 4 flamers compares to 3; even then, 4 flamers comperd to 2 flamers + a heavy is a close call, depending on theopponent....then you still have to take the 2x PIS. For some lists, Platoons are good, for others, they eat up valuable points that are better spenton Vets and vehicles.

I'm unsure what you mean by eating up valuable points since they're dirt cheap. I got 14 AV12 vehicles in my 1.75K list and I have one infantry platoon (PCS+2 PIS) in it. I would lose atleast one Chimera if I converted the infantry platoon to just more Vet squads. I guess people want different things but I don't need every unit to be an elite unit.

So the only real drawback I'm hearing is that you have to take PIS as well. However if you already plan on taking PIS anyway, I don't see that as a bad thing.

And PISs aren't bad for their points either. A PIS with a heavy bolter puts out about the same amount of anti light infantry firepower as a heavy bolter chimera for about the same price. They're different in other ways, but in general they're about equal (which is probably why the cost the same number of points). If you think chimeras are good, there's no reason to poo-poo PISs.

Unless you're running a mechanized list, in which case chimeras are the entire point. Even then, as mentioned, platoons give you the ability to take more chimeras than to veterans.

As such, the "disadvantage" of "having" to take PIS seems sort of a non-factor compared to the benefits.

If you only want a few vet squads then you've got a point but what if you want five or six?

Also, in your example of 2 vets vs a platoon, what about delivery? Getting two vet squads into position to melta or flame is easier and cheaper than getting three vet squads in plus the BS4 makes a considerable difference with anything except flamers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ailaros wrote:2 vet squads w/3x melta (4 melta hits per turn) = 200 pts

PCS w/ 4x melta, 2 PIS w/ 1 melta apiece ( 4 melta hits per turn) = 190pts

The platoons give you three times the scoring units and over twice the number of bodies, and bring along orders orders, for the same amount of special weapons firepower (more firepower over all) for fewer points.

25:20 is not "over twice the number of bodies", not even close, and the platoon is only getting 3 melta hits.

That 10 point saving get you one less hit out of every six shots and five extra bodies. Then you need an extra transport. Why take a PCS when I could take a CCS that has BS4 and can use Bring It Down on itself?

Therion wrote:

The only place a PCS outshines Vets is 4 flamers compares to 3; even then, 4 flamers comperd to 2 flamers + a heavy is a close call, depending on theopponent....then you still have to take the 2x PIS. For some lists, Platoons are good, for others, they eat up valuable points that are better spenton Vets and vehicles.

I'm unsure what you mean by eating up valuable points since they're dirt cheap. I got 14 AV12 vehicles in my 1.75K list and I have one infantry platoon (PCS+2 PIS) in it. I would lose atleast one Chimera if I converted the infantry platoon to just more Vet squads. I guess people want different things but I don't need every unit to be an elite unit.

i'd love To see that list too...

This is essentially a mechver versus a hybrid or "leafblower" list discussion. Both work fine, with mechvets being the more offensive and surgical list, and the mixed list being slightly more static but much "sturdier" than mechvet lists..