Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Say you land a furioso librarian dread in a drop pod into enemy lines. Can you fire off its magna grapple at one tank, and then fire off its psychic blood lance elsewhere. It doesnt seem to need a target and just says fire from the librarians base in any direction, and any enemy unit it goes through takes a single hit.

Also when resolving blood lance, since it hits multiple units, would cover saves apply?

Natfka wrote:Say you land a furioso librarian dread in a drop pod into enemy lines. Can you fire off its magna grapple at one tank, and then fire off its psychic blood lance elsewhere. It doesnt seem to need a target and just says fire from the librarians base in any direction, and any enemy unit it goes through takes a single hit.

By the Strict RaW, the Blood Lance still "Targets" the same unit you fired the Magna Grapple at, but the line does not have to go through that unit.

Also when resolving blood lance, since it hits multiple units, would cover saves apply?

I don't have the codex on me so I can't answer this one without risking looking like a fool :(

However, that has never stopped me in the past, so I am going to answer that you measure LoS along the line and work out cover from that, with the provision that I don't have the Codex on me atm and am answering from memory.

so as far as blood lance goes, I can make it go a different direction entirely than the magna grapple. and possibly effecting a whole mess of stuff?
How cool is that.

Natfka wrote:so as far as blood lance goes, I can make it go a different direction entirely than the magna grapple. and possibly effecting a whole mess of stuff?
How cool is that.

Just be aware that the INAT FAQ went against RaW for JotWW which has similar wording, so expect it to do the same for Blood Lance.

The Blood Lance already ignores Units in HtH and doesnt affect friendly units at its path,
wouldn't bet on cover-saves.

FAQ on GW site states cover saves may still be taken against Phy. Attacks as long as they would just like shooting.

only if the power in question is a shooting attack.

As per the rulebook Pg 60 under "Psychic Shooting Attacks". IF you are allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, you can replace the firing of any of the weapons you may normally fire with a psychic shooting attack. And, per the rulebook Pg 58 first paragraph all weapons on a vehicle must fire at a single target. Sooo since you are technically using The Blood Lance instead of your storm bolter then it must be used on a unit that the Magna-Grapple is also targeting (Even though it may hit units in front of and behind the unit that the Magna-Grapple is firing at).

Or at least that is my interpretation.

ur not useing blood lance instead of the storm bolter

So why should one aim a

weapon at any non-vehicle?

Both, Magna grapple and Blood lance are anti-armor tools and you can't shoot
2 different vehicles à turn with your walker.

Why not? Again nothing requires that your "target" and the *direction* you choose to be the same.

it works exactly like flamers. place the template with the narrow end touching the firing models base and then place the template where it touches the most enemy models without touching friendly models.

Blood lance works similer to that.

you still "target" a unit, but then it says draw a line from the dread 4d6 in ANY direction.

@ Natfka: But that is what the rulebook says you are doing... otherwise he wouldn't be able to fire anything accept for the power itself. If he was a regular librarian he would only be able to fire one ranged weapon or The Blood Lance. Since a Dreadnought Librarian is capable of firing more than one weapon it says on pg. 50 of the rulebook, "However, if he is allowed to fire more than one ranged weapon per turn, he can replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack..." Unless The Blood Lance counts as an "optional weapon" (Pg 58 of the rulebook) he must choose to replace the firing of one of the weapons he can normally fire (the storm bolter for example) with The Blood Lance.

I know it is weird but because the Librarian is a vehicle the rules end up boiling down differently. (Unless I'm reading the rules incorrectly)

@Grey Templar: Oh okay... so he still targets one unit but because it says he may draw a line in any direction he can end up hitting units that weren't targeted. Gotcha.

Quick Question. Can the Liby Dred get the Mana grabber? The last entry states
"Upgrade to librian, exchange ALL wargear for x"

After you exchange all wargear, can you rebuy the war gear?

Grey Templar wrote:it works exactly like flamers. place the template with the narrow end touching the firing models base and then place the template where it touches the most enemy models without touching friendly models.

Blood lance works similer to that.

you still "target" a unit, but then it says draw a line from the dread 4d6 in ANY direction.

Where is this written in the rules? The rules for template weapons apply very specifically to weapons that use the tear-drop "flamer" template.

Don't make things seem like they're clear when they're not, you're not doing anyone any favors.

jbunny wrote:Quick Question. Can the Liby Dred get the Mana grabber? The last entry states
"Upgrade to librian, exchange ALL wargear for x"

After you exchange all wargear, can you rebuy the war gear?

From my ever so awesome Unofficial FAQ

BA.85.01 – Q: Can a Furioso Librarian purchase weapons and wargear from the options list?
A: Yes. These may be Purchased “after” the Upgrade to a Furioso Librarian. The only option unavailable is the Blood Talon option, as you no longer have the wargear to exchange for them. [Clarification]
• It can, however, be interpreted that you lose any purchased wargear and may not purchase them at all.

Im sure when the faq comes out they will address this one. Extra armor, search light, and magna grapple should be allowed as they are upgrades, upgrading to a librarian dread just replaces the equipment listed under wargear. And then you buy your upgrades

Since it is a psychic shooting attack, you would need LOS and an target correct? So on that premise, that any direction that you would want to fire off Blood Lance, you would have to also have faced your librarian dreadnought in that direction to get said target in your arc of fire to use your grapple on it as well.

okay, so:

1) The line is in any direction, you need to have a valid target in your LOS to use the attack, but once you have you are under no obligation to draw the line towards that "targetted" unit.

2) Since the lance only inflicts hits on the units effected, and is a psychic shooting attack, the units will get cover saves as determined by LOS.

3) Since the lance is measured from the base of the walker and has no weapon mounting, the 45 degree restriction does not apply as it would to a normal walker weapon, instead, you rely on the true LOS that you consider the walker to have, there are 3 ways you might choose to determine this, and you will probably have to discuss it with your opponent.

A - You might treat a walker as having only a 45 degree LOS arc still because that is all it's weapons have (this is how chaos players who claim fire frenzy will affect a more distant enemy unit rather than a nearby friendly one tend to play it)

B - You might use actual LOS measured from the models eyes, in the case of the Librarian dread either the helmet of the venerable dreadnought or the slit in a normal sarcophagus.

C - You might consider vehicles, to be able to draw Line of Sight in 360 degrees around them, while the more restrictive Line of Sight limits on weapons apply only to the weapon, not to the whole vehicle.

4) As pointed out by iMagUdspEllr, because the Psychic Shooting Attack rules specifically allow you to "replace the firing of any of the weapons he is allowed to fire with a psychic shooting attack", you must actually replace a weapon's firing with a psychic shooting attack, and a stationary vehicle (which the dreadnought counts as) is allowed to fire "all of [its] weapons" NOT an infinite number of weapons, it is restricted to firing the number of ranged weapons it is armed with.

I think that about sums it up.