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Special Rules -And They Shall Know No Fear -Combat Tactics -Independent Character -Chapter Tactics* -Force Commander**
*If you include Gabriel Angelos, then all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule. Instead, all Sergeants (except for Avitus, Tarkus, Cyrus and Thadeus) may choose one psychic power, which may be used once per game, and all power weapons for sergeants (except for the aforementioned special characters) are single-use force weapons.
**Force Commander allows the following special characters to be included in the Army: Sergeant Avitus, Sergeant Cyrus, Sergeant Tarkus, and Sergeant Thadeus. Also, Librarians may take Command Squads.
Troops Sergeant Tarkus...75 Points One Tactical squad in the army may replace it's Space Marine Sergeant with Sergeant Avitus. WS:4 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:2 A:2 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Special Rules -And They shall Know No Fear -Combat Squads -Tactical Advance*
*Tactical Advance: Instead of moving normally, Sergeant Tarkus' unit may elect to make a Tactical Advance move. The squad moves using the rules for the Slow and Purposeful USR. Once per enemy shooting phase, when the opposing player elects to shoot at a friendly unit, you may instead have have that unit shoot at Tarkus' unit, which gets a 5+ Invulnerable save, but only against hits coming from the elected unit. The elected unit must have a line of sight to the squad, and at least one weapon in range. Note that the unit may not run if it elected to make a Tactical Advance move.
Sergeant Cyrus...75 Points One Scout squad in the army may replace it's Space Marine Sergeant with Sergeant Cyrus. Sergeant Telion can not be included if Sergenat Cyrus is taken. WS:4 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:1 A:2 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Special Rules -And They shall Know No Fear -Combat Squads -Shadow Tactics** -Stormrider**** -Infiltrate -Scout
*Slamshot: Slamshot is a Twin linked Shotgun with the Following Profile: R: 12" Str: 4 AP: 3 Assault 1
**Shadow Tactics: Cyrus is a master of emerging from the shadows to combat his foes, and can be very difficult to find, if he wishes to remain unseen by the enemy. He and his squad have the Hit and Run USR, the Stealth USR, and a 6+ invulnerable save.
***Stormrider: Cyrus is proficient with all tools employed by the Space Marine Scouts. His squad may take a Land Speeder Storm as a Dedicated Transport if it numbers five models.
Fast Attack Sergeant Thadeus...70 Points One Assault squad in the army may replace it's Space Marine Sergeant with Sergeant Thadeus. WS:5 BS:4 S:4 T:4 W:1 A:3 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Special Rules -And They shall Know No Fear -Combat Squads -Preferred Enemy -Assault Jump**
*The Sunderblade is a Chainsword with rending.
**Assault Jump: Sergeant Thadeus' squad may always start the game in reserve, and may always Deepstrike, rolling 1d6 for scatter. When Thadeus's squad enters play in this manner, choose one model in the unit. Any enemy models within 6" take a S:4 AP:6 hit. In addition, the unit may assault instead of shoot the turn it deep strikes. This ability malfunctions if the unit rolls on the Deep Strike Mishap table for any reason.
Heavy Support Sergeant Avitus...50 Points One Devastator squad in the army may replace it's Space Marine Sergeant with Sergeant Avitus. WS:4 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:1 A:2 Ld:9 Sv:3+
Special Rules -And They shall Know No Fear -Combat Squads -Victory Bay*
*Victory Bay: Sergeant Avitus will never forget the events of the assault on Victory Bay, and the anger of that day still simmers. Sergeant Avitus and his Devastator Squad has the Relentless USR.
Okay. So that's all of the major characters. I didn't think that Orion deserved a special character, as while he's a powerful librarian, to be sure, he could be well represented by a Tigurius "Counts As." Martellus is an
Spoiler:
Emperor-Damned traitor
, and deserves no further mention. I'll get around to adding Gordian and Davian Thulenought soon enough.
I'm looking for advice on points costs. I'd agree right now that all of them are under costed, but i really had no basis for what the costs should be.
This message was edited 9 times. Last update was at 2010/04/06 20:10:54
Chapter Tactics is very powerful - consider making it so that a Sarge can buy any one power for +20p and/or a FW for +20p.
If you change it, I'd say it should be free.
If you leave as is, then it should be +40p IMO.
Tarkus Ax Grenade Launcher+1W
15+15=30
'Tactical Advance' sounds more like jumping up and down shouting "shoot me! shoot me!"
It basicly forces all the enemy army to shoot at that sqaud until its dead. Really, I cannot put a points cost to that, its very good, yet totaly idoitic at the same time.
Cyrus Acute Sences - with Rg12" weapons? - 0
BS5 - 5
Slamshot - a S4 AP3 shot that hits on a 2+ with a reroll - 10
H&R - pretty nice - 10
Stealth - Thing is, if you want to use Stormrider, you need a 5 man CC squad, which won't benafit much from stealth. You get the same effect @ 3ppm with cloaks, but thats only worth it in large shooty squads - 15
6+ Inv - will always be nice, especily vs shooting. Again, better in a larger squad - 15
Stormrider - The problem with this, is you want to be in large squads for the Stealth + Inv save, but small squad for this. Also, a LSS squad really needs a PFIMO, which he lacks - 5
=70 points
Thadeus Melta Bombs+1 Attack+PE 5+10+20=35
Those are the most expensive Melta bombs I have ever seen....
Also, he doesn't have a jump pack (I assume this is a typo).
Assault Jump is worth about 0 points. Its useless. To use it, you have to DS w/in 2" of the enemy...
Avitus Special Issue Ammo+1BS-Signum
5+5-10=0
Relentless is VERY good, so probably around 50 points for him.
So, I'd give Thad. Rending and drop him to 40 points.
Drop Avitus to 50 (60 if you give him Signum).
Angelo to 200 points, or 160 if you make the rules change suggested.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/06 11:27:36
Good points all around. I raised Angelos' points cost, rather than complicate things by assigning costs to the powers and weapons.
Also, good call on Thadeus. I decided to pimp out Assault Jump, as it's one of the coolest things he can do in the computer game, and I really want to do it credit on the table top. A rending chainsword feels too much like ripping of Corbulo's special weapon. Thanks for catching the jump Pack typo.
Commander Endova wrote:Good points all around. I raised Angelos' points cost, rather than complicate things by assigning costs to the powers and weapons.
Also, good call on Thadeus. I decided to pimp out Assault Jump, as it's one of the coolest things he can do in the computer game, and I really want to do it credit on the table top. A rending chainsword feels too much like ripping of Corbulo's special weapon. Thanks for catching the jump Pack typo.
With Assault Jump, you could make it so that you can land on enemy unit, and any model within 1" is moved the minimum possibel distance to avoid being within 1", and takes a S4 hit, and the unit has to take a pinning test.
With the chainsword thing, I just think that so much of an assult squads power comes from the Sarge with PF/PW/TH etc, that he would never get used in an allcomers list without so way to bypass MEQ saves.
Tactical advance is kind of OP. The way it's worded now my broadside suits would be forced to shoot at Tarkus, instead of a Land raider, which is blatantly stupid. I'd say change it to something similar to the changeling. "In the opponents next shooting phase, all enemy units within 24" must pass a leadership test or be forced to shoot at Tarkus' unit." Still kind of silly to me game-play wise but this seems more balanced. Or change it so that Tactical Advances "Shoot me! Shoot me! (For lack of a better term)" clause can only affect one unit per turn.
As is, against a shooty army, it's especially broken: Have a few transports move 12" forward. Use "Shoot me! Shoot me!" ability forcing the enemy not to shoot the rhinos. Have the transports move another 12" toward the enemy. Maybe tank shock if you have range. If Tarkus is still alive, repeat. If not pop smoke. You should now be in melee range. Move 6" disembark, and if you are in a land raider assault, if not weather one turn of shooting & assault next turn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/06 13:25:45
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mayde give avitus option for heavy weapond? and give him something like last stand:if redused under 3 men squad may fire twice with theyr guns or have fnp
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/06 14:41:50
Black Antelope wrote:
With the chainsword thing, I just think that so much of an assult squads power comes from the Sarge with PF/PW/TH etc, that he would never get used in an allcomers list without so way to bypass MEQ saves.
Noted. I've conceded, and given him a rending chainsword.
Shas'O Dorian wrote:Tactical advance is kind of OP. The way it's worded now my broadside suits would be forced to shoot at Tarkus, instead of a Land raider, which is blatantly stupid. I'd say change it to something similar to the changeling. "In the opponents next shooting phase, all enemy units within 24" must pass a leadership test or be forced to shoot at Tarkus' unit."
Still kind of silly to me game-play wise but this seems more balanced. Or change it so that Tactical Advances "Shoot me! Shoot me! (For lack of a better term)" clause can only affect one unit per turn.
As is, against a shooty army, it's especially broken:
Have a few transports move 12" forward.
Use "Shoot me! Shoot me!" ability forcing the enemy not to shoot the rhinos.
Have the transports move another 12" toward the enemy. Maybe tank shock if you have range.
If Tarkus is still alive, repeat. If not pop smoke. You should now be in melee range.
Move 6" disembark, and if you are in a land raider assault, if not weather one turn of shooting & assault next turn.
I see where you're coming from. I've changed the wording so that it explicitly states that the ability may only be used against one enemy unit per turn. It can still suppress Broadsides for a few turns, but there are ways to counter it. Move out of LOS, or out of range. I thought about doing a leadership test, but those are passed often enough to render the ability useless. Hopefully, you've brought more than one anti-tank unit.
Devastator wrote:mayde give avitus option for heavy weapond?
and give him something like last stand:if redused under 3 men squad may fire twice with theyr guns or have fnp
They're good suggestions, but I think giving Avitus anything else might make him OP. 4 Relentless Heavy weapons is terrifying, plus he gets special ammunition. Yikes.
You do realise that the traitor in Chaos Rising could be anyone? It's entirely random For me it was Thaddeus!
Spoiler:
Yeah its whoever happens to be the most tainted in your group. I beat chaos rising with everyone pure and it turns our Martellus is the traitor. I'm pretty sure thats the "right" way to be the game, but i'm not sure what happens if your force commander happens to be the most tainted
PS: for original poster
Spoiler:
gordian died so don't bother making him
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/04/07 01:42:54
Ok, now you have overpowered the Jump thing. I'd get rid of the reduced scatter, leaving it as Divine Intervention, but with the hits to all models w/in 6"
For Angelos, what's with all this psychic power and force weapon stuff? Seriously, where is the idea coming from? What're you basing it on: This dude is in my army people can buy better but unnecessary weapons. Also, they shouldn't be able to take psychic powers... otherwise they'd be Libbys.
Davian Thule, just make him a venerable Dreadnought with some special rule or something. Maybe give him Preferred enemy: Tyranids.
Also, there's something important you've left out of your plans: Teh evil chapter master.
Since the inevitable 3rd/6th game hasn't come out yet, he's technically still alive in the current 40k timeline, so he'd be basically your standard chapter master awesomeness (270pts around) + Tigurius' stuff. Could use him in a chaos army list as well.
It comes from the fact that Blood Ravens are known for a very high rate of psyker potential. I thought this was a slightly cooler way to represent that fact than giving them access to a thousand librarians or something.
, 
, 
, Skaven
For me it was Thaddeus!
1500 pts