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i posted something earlier about whats the best assault army. so far i am thinking black templar (because i like the fluff and i heard they are ok at assault) i dont really know much about black templar at all. what are they good at? is there a review somewhere i can read? and i was thinking blood angels cause i heard they are amazing assault and they are the most up to date. can anyone tell me where i could find more info about the black templar and whats the difference between the 2 chapters? thanks in advance

Neither, it's all about Blood For the Blood God Bezerkers of the World Eaters...as Zealous as BT and as much involved with blood as Blood Angels.

Well objectively Blood Angels are a lot more flexible but if you want pure assault then it really depends on you. Blood Angels are better for getting an assault in the earlier parts of the game while Black Templar are better at having a single backbreaking charge later in the game. Blood Angels are able to make a better shooty list because they do not have Rightous Zeal which makes black templar take a morale check if they loose a single guy if they fail they fall back if they pass they move toward the enemy.

i dont know how to enter quotes but what Sanctjud said was very confusing i dont know what you mean at all.

He says that you're looking in the wrong place and the best most fluffy all-out assault MEQ army is World Eaters.

Sorry there Hartastic, I was just joking around.

World Eaters are the crazy combat guys.

As for BA vs. BT. I will suggest BA.
It's not for band wagoning, but for ease of rules. I think the BT is a bit old and somethings might be confusing with respect to rules and editions.

Anyway, as I see it, BT are about a mass infantry army (Crusade theme) with the unique: Emperor's Champion and Neophytes (read:meatshields) within the large Templar troop choices.

BA get alot of love and have alot of flexibility with what you want to do.
BA will prob. go more mech than BT and will focus on force multipliers or uber characters than BT.

oh thanks. and whats world eaters? lol

They are the minions of CORN!!! STARCH FOR THE STARCH GOD!!!!

Oh...wrong game, mybad...

World eaters are a traitor legion that specializes in being psychotic butchers. Blood for the blood god.

Word bearers anyone? WORDS FOR THE SCRABBLE GOD

but really, why are space wolves not in this discussion? All 3 are pretty solid assault armies and you can't really go wrong with space marines atm. The new codexes definitely offer point efficiency and lots of great army options (fast attack, mech, jump troops, dreadnought armies, etc).

Space Wolves riding Space Wolves...with 'riding' meaning a whole list of things...from LoL to Vomit.

Lots of MEQs do combat well, but I guess the OP just likes the looks of BT and BA at the moment.

Space Puppies or SMurfs isn't exactly cool looking in that regard...compared to Twilight Marines and Chris Williams the Black Templar...oh dear Nurgle.

i like all the ideas. but i think im gonna go with BT just because they look cool and i fluff. i dont want to make a final decision till i know alot more about them. and i dont want to spend alot of money and get screwed. anyone know of a place with specific info about black templar?

hartastic wrote:i like all the ideas. but i think im gonna go with BT just because they look cool and i fluff. i dont want to make a final decision till i know alot more about them. and i dont want to spend alot of money and get screwed. anyone know of a place with specific info about black templar?

the BT codex?

Rumours abound of a new Black Templar update this year...

ya i know the codex is the best place. but i dont have 25 bucks to throw at a new book everytime im interested in something.

you could do a google search for Black Templars and read some fluff. Unfortunatly you wont get to far without the outdated codex.

outdated codex? the lastest one was the 4th ed corect?

BA... its not even close.

You may need this, in your search for further information.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Templar

Also he says outdated, because the BT book was created for use in 5th Edition, some of the things in the book don't cross over too well. Also you will have the Storm Shields that only allow 4 up invulns in CC rather than a 3 up all the time. Unless you play with a group that will allow the use of them.

hartastic wrote:so far i am thinking black templar (because i like the fluff and i heard they are ok at assault)

Black Templar are not 'ok' at assault, they are amazing! The Emperor's Champion is a steal for 90 points (str 6 power weapons are really good at taking care of other marines). Add 50 points to him (for 140 total) and your ENTIRE army gets preferred enemy. And it sticks around even if he dies. So really it's 90 points for him (which is killable) and 50 points for something that is around the entire game. And trust me, preferred enemy is an amazing special rule.

Righteous Zeal doesn't make a Black Templar army weaker perse, just act differently. The righteous zeal movement isn't on your own turn so you can still fire heavy weapons and rapid fire weapons with no drawback. It can still be used to draw you off an objective however.... (except for you can choose to move 1 inch or less with the rule under RAW. Consolidating is a may move UP TO, so choose to move as little as possible if you want to be a jerk and ignore the fluff of the rule).

Now as to Blood Angels vs Black Templar... that's tricky.

Both can get troop choices with close combat weapons. Their differences are in point costs and their special rules. Black Templar have over costed transports (with the older, better smoke launchers) and get preferred enemy from the Champion. Blood Angels get all the new point costs for transports and furious charge for their rules (I believe this comes form the priests, they give a +5 cover save with a physic power and maybe feel no pain? not sure I don't own the book).

So really it boils down to: Who do you like more flavor wise? Blood Angels get fast everything and have a dark history with the black rage, while black templar hold to honor. They refuse to back down or behave cowardly. They could care less about rules and regulations, only that they do the Emperor's work.


And the Black Templar codex will most likely NOT be this year, but early next year (say a year from now or so). I work at a gaming store and while GW is always closed mouth that's what I've been reading on rumors and from what I've heard there.

hartastic wrote:outdated codex? the lastest one was the 4th ed corect?

You're looking at the old prices for transports and such (more expensive for the same stuff)
Crappier storm shields
No Redeemer/Whirlwind/TFC

You do get a few bonuses, especially the EC and the more veteran units with Furious Charge and Tank Hunters, but it does show its age.

BA, on the other hand, are cutting edge. They somehow get the same vehicles to run better (hybrids, maybe?), along with some pretty killer unique units. Haven't played against them yet, but they seem almost OP from what I've seen.
That being said, the BA have possibly the dumbest fluff I've ever read (in my humble opinion).

Also, BA will probably do mech better, but BT are hardly limited to footslogging. They can run 15 man Crusader units in a LRC. That's nasty.

So BT: badass victims of codex creep
BA: flavor of the week with some neat tricks, much more competitive

Black Templars have several things going for them as an assault army:
-They still have Rites of Battle, that means Ld 10 on the whole army.
-Crusader squads (not to be confused with LRCs) which can take Neophytes (ablative wounds), making them resilient against damage. Crusader squads can at least take a bit of shooting after breaking a unit on the charge.
-The aforementioned army wide Preferred Enemy from the Emp's Champ.
-LC Assault Terminators w/ Furious Charge. They can't take the punishment like TH/SS terminators, but they defiantly hit harder.
-Dedicated Transport Land Raider Crusaders. Combine that with the old smoke launcher rules. They're getting across the table.

They do have some problems:
-Black Templars still have to take target priority checks at -1 (an old hold over rule from 4th ed.), which puts a crimp into any long range shooting.
-Righteous Zeal makes your Crusader squads susceptible to the yo-yo effect. They fail a save, fail their Ld 8, run away, auto-rally and march back towards the enemy. You pretty much need to take a Marshal or put a character in your Crusader squads.

If you want an assault BT army I'd either go with a foot slogging horde with Chaplains or a mech. army built around LRC.

As others have said, I would go with the one you want to play over the 'best' or newest one. If you enjoy your army you will enjoy playing your army alot more.

BA and BT are both solid assault armies, but while BA are crazy space vampires, BT are crusaders (which totally get my vote)

BT are also a uncommon army, so you can be a bit more unique than the flavor of the month bandwagoners.

Inquisitor Lord Bane wrote:They are the minions of CORN!!! STARCH FOR THE STARCH GOD!!!!

CORN FOR THE CORN GOD! HUSKS FOR THE HUSK THRONE!

i just got the BT codex and im looking to build my army now. what did you mean about neophytes taking (ablative wounds), or do you jsut mean that they can obsorb the wounds for the initiates?

well, BT reroll all failed to hits in close combat, move forward when they are shot at, and always have one of the best space marine characters, the Emporer's champion. Also, their crusaders are immune to lances.

So in other words, they are hard to kill, beastly in close combat, and can advance faster than the average marine.

@hartastic:
What you are looking for is:
-Wound Allocation Rules where you get to allocate where wounds go to (Main Rulebook).
-Crusader Squads with a mix of SMs and 'scouts'...so that you can allocated shots were you see fit.

Exarch_Nektel wrote:well, BT reroll all failed to hits in close combat, move forward when they are shot at, and always have one of the best space marine characters, the Emporer's champion. Also, their crusaders are immune to lances.

So in other words, they are hard to kill, beastly in close combat, and can advance faster than the average marine.

Just to be fair, Blood Angels are also much faster than your average marine. Fast transports or everything in jump packs

But I will always love Black Templar. Sure the codex has some creep on it but nothing that truly deters you from playing them.


In truth I feel Blood Angels and Black Templar will play very similarly. Neither army really likes sitting back and shooting much. And neither army is super great at it, at least not when you compare their shooting to their special rules for close combat or for getting close.

My suggestion for Black Templar: Powerfists everywhere. And when I said everywhere, I mean everywhere. In all honesty the only HQ you need is the Champion, but Marshals are great for giving your entire army leadership 10. Very nice for testing with Righteous Zeal.

Chaplains are not as useless as everyone thinks. Yes under the old rules for preferred enemy you didn't re-roll, you just hit on 3+. Now you re-roll against other models with a weapon skill. The Chaplain lets you re-roll against everything, which is very, very nice. And you have more freedom for Righteous Zeal. Plus fearless always is nice too.