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Raef has run sesveral sessions of Warhammer Fantasy Role Play 3.0 from Fantasy Flight Games. Will this new system revolutionize the way we play RPG's? Or is it a tad too gimmicky?

Later the D6G team dive deep into the realm of Runewars, a new massive boxed game from Fantasy Flight Games also. This game is loaded with theme and amazing components.

Also, Nicole and Russ made it to PAX East. Here their thoughts in Achievements in Gaming and Total Fan Girl.

All that and our usual 'not too horrible' humor, with features such as:

The Hollywood Minute
Rapid Fire
What's in the News
Total Fan Girl
& More



Link to the episode:
http://www.thed6generation.com/d6g_ep_53_warhammer_fantasy_roleplay_3_0_detailed_review_rune_wars_detailed_review

Please let us know what you think!

Goody, new episode already! It takes me so long to finish one episode the next one is often right around the corner.


I'm going to jump back to last episode and post a comment about it...I felt for you Craig, sitting amongst those two Warmachine lovers! Apparently both Craig and I must be the miniature gamer who rolls a '1' to like Warmachine and then rolls that dreaded second '1'.

But seriously, while I can recognize the overall quality that oozes out of Warmachine (and Privateer in general) the game just doesn't do it for me either. Yeah, the imagery certainly doesn't sell me, and as you pointed out Russ that's often the most important factor, but I also have to say that when I played the game a couple of times it just wasn't for me.

I think I like the more army scale game and to me, Warmachine still feels like a bigger-sized skirmish scale game. I really don't enjoy having to track stuff on unit cards. I know Warmachine's usage of cards and tokens to track things like focus and damage is pretty darn elegant, but its something I kind of got soured on years ago after playing Man 'O War a bunch.

At one point I was playing a big Man 'O War game with dozens of ship cards sitting on the edge of the table when somebody came by and bumped the table really hard knocking all the cards (with all their damage and fire counters) onto the floor, effectively ending the game in an instant.

Since that day I've always had a soft spot for games that make a conscious effort to keep the amount of bookeeping needed to an absolute minimum. And again, while I think that Warmachine's systems of doing so are very elegant, it is still not the style of game playing that I am interested in with a miniature wargame.

IMHO I'd rate Warmachine at a nice solid 3+.


Anyway, keep up the great work and I can't wait to listen to this episode as always.

Well Yak, as a gamers we all know that double 1's come up far more often than you'd expect.

I probably should have split my rating based on visual appeal. If you like the models/art then I think its a 2+ w/ reroll. If the models and images are meh for you, then I'd give it a 4+.

Thanks for the feedback and thanks for listening!!

(and mostly thanks for keeping Dakka rock'n)

Almost through the WHFRP review and actually this makes me want to check out the game more than ever. It seems like a roleplaying game I and my wife could get in to. Dark Heresy often leaves me scratching my head with its myriad rules and a system that lets me jump in and just use my cards and some special dice makes me want to try it out.

I love Runewars. It's almost one part Descent, one part StarCraft, which is a great blend. 3+ is a fair raiting.

Regarding Craig's comments about Future War Commander, the sci-fi rules set he bought based on Warmaster, a few points:

Cost: you can buy a copy in the UK (where Pete, the individual who is Specialist Military Publishing, is based) for £20. This equates to around $30. You can buy the book direct from Pete for £31 (airmail), which is around $47. It is supposed to be cheaper for you fellows in the US to buy from distributors, but if you paid $50, that sounds a little excessive.

We all know that the main rulebooks from GW, PP and others are cheap because of print volume and because they are loss leaders; the companies in question make the vast majority of their money from the models they sell off the back of their books. Pete does not make any miniatures, so all revenue comes from his books.

With this family of products, you get a set of comprehensively playtested rules, enough lists to keep most people happy and a method of creating your own custom lists. You never need to buy another book.

Fluff: The publisher's website states that the book has 41 army lists. Producing even a modest amount of fluff for each list would mean a much larger (and hence more expensive) book. With regard to your comments about GW and model names, you of all people should know how GW respond to any IP infringement, even one that would help it to make more money.

Presentation: It's full colour, perfect bound, well-edited, has an excellent contents page. Seriously, what more could you want?

General tone: This is a small (for that, read 'one person') publisher who has turned his love of wargaming into a small and, I hope, profitable business. He has an extremely active website and responds in person to queries, etc in a very timely fashion. His customer service and attitude are excellent.

I know you realise that your podcast is extremely popular, and that your opinions on products will influence a huge number of gamers ("with great power, etc etc"). With this seemingly off-hand dismissal of this product (before you've played it), you will have caused a lot of people who may be thinking of trying the game to be turned off. This does a disservice to both potential players and the publisher. I think you put your finger on the problem when you said that we, as gamers, are 'spoiled'. It's easy to pick up a game pushed by a large and dominant company. It's hard to see the potential in a relatively new game. But how can these independent companies grow if they aren't given a chance?

I hope you are able to see past the surface and give this game a chance; then, when you've realised what a gem it is, you can give it fair review.

No hate; just disappointment

Ah . . . Pelgrane . . . I’m going to assume from your summary that you haven’t finished up the podcast yet. OR maybe (shame on you!) you don’t listen through to D’you Ever Notice . . . :(

I mitigated my opening comments rather severely in DYEN, and revised a lot of my original thoughts based on a couple more days’ perusal and cogitation. The resultant, tempered response actually addresses many of your points, and will be elaborated upon in future episodes culminating, I hope, in a full review of FWC with an additional bonus element of looking at ‘boutique’ companies that produce excellent products without the corporate resources of the bigger houses.

That being said, however, these products need to be seen within the frame of reference of the industry as a whole. There are gamers out there who will give a company a look just because they’re small. For a wider success, however, these small companies have to succeed DESPITE their size.

That being said, FWC is a great book, with a lot to recommend it, and I’ll say as much, again, in episode 54, have no fear.

Ok, red faces all round, I didn't listen to the end of the podcast. I suppose that's the downside of a medium as immediate as the internet; it massively speeds up the process by which I can demonstrate that I am a plonker.

My only defence is that I really enjoy the Warmaster and Warmaster-inspired family of games, and I could see a chance of wider recognition for Specialist Military Publishing slipping away.

I look forward to the review when it happens.

No problems, Pelgrane. It does you credit that your immediate reaction mirrors my reaction after days of reflection. I mean, if someone as advanced and intelligent as MOI took DAYS, then you're WAY ahead of the curve!

I am trying to schedule my first test game while I type this, actually. So, soon, God willing and the crick don't rise!

You're no plunker, mate, just passionate. And with good reason!

Happy Gaming!

Are the distributors for the Future War Commander rulebook falling back on pricing the book as an import for some reason?

Picking two of the on-line distributors linked from blitzkrieg-commander.com, it looks like it's getting listed at "suggested price" US $50, "our special sale price" US $40-45.

That's a good question, Solkan. When I decided I wanted to buy the book I did a bunch of research, went to the actual Specialist Military Publishing website and priced it out, online distributors, and local professional gaming stores. When all was said and done, though, prices, including shipping and handling, came down to around $44-$48. And the whole instant gratification thing, if that’s an issue, needs to be taken into account also. I ended up going for the easy route, and just emailed Dan from Myriad Games and then didn’t worry about it further. It took 2-3 weeks and cost $50, but it was in pristine shape when I got it, I never had to worry about it getting lost in the mail (the last thing I ordered from England, a bunch of 6mm zombies, took almost 2 months), and although it didn’t immediately scratch that itch, I got it quickly enough.

But yeah, looking at the price in the UK and doing a quick currency conversion doesn’t really tell the whole tale. If you’re buying it in the US, you’re going to end up paying around $50 when you’ve added shipping and handling.

Half way through this episode and really enjoying it as always. Hooray for a positive MMO achievement! And by the way Russ, "Positron" is Matt Miller, Lead Designer with Paragon Studios (Part of NCsoft).

Another good episode -- and the Ratcatcher carreer for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay is added in in the Adventurer's Toolkit.

Shellfishguy wrote:Half way through this episode and really enjoying it as always. Hooray for a positive MMO achievement! And by the way Russ, "Positron" is Matt Miller, Lead Designer with Paragon Studios (Part of NCsoft).

Drat, and here I was thinking he was the life spark of all Transformers. Another illusion shattered.

So what's the appeal of the Warmaster ruleset? I've heard people speak well of it, but it never seemed to get a large following, so I wasn't sure if it was actually worth looking in to.

Started listening last night, and I now can't wait to get to DYEN! My initial response to FWC was similar to Craig's, (an inability to get "into" it) I recognised it as my issue though, not the rules. Buying FWC I am "buying a set of rules" rather than, as nowadays with many of the larger companies "buying into a wargaming system". There's a subtle but important difference, which perhaps only the more self-aware amongst us might spot.

In the old days, I remember wargames rules being tatty typed scraps of documents, focussing purely on mechanics. GW led the way (and got surpassed by PP) into the realm of "selling an experience" rather than just the rules, and that gives the user greater utility from the product, but also ties the user into the IP more tightly - with obvious financial repurcussions.

For us the customer there is then a clear choice: The likes of the new WM MkII rulebook costs just over £22 or so here in the UK, for loads of fluff, inspiring art and graphics, and of course a few pages of well-written and explained rules. For one game universe, which is NOT cheap to buy into.

FWC for a similar price (£20) gives no fluff, or graphics, and little art, and a few pages of well-written and explained rules, for multiple game universes, many of which are relatively cheap to buy into.

Big companies can provide fluff and frippery, leagues, art, a full "gaming experience", but you pay for it because you are ultimately tied into a range of models where they make their *real* profits.

Small, rules-only, companies have none of the benefits of ready-made play, and expensive artwork and fluff-writing, but they do have the advantage of much greater flexibility, alowing your gaming £/$ to go further as you explore multiple different gaming ranges and models which cover areas untouched by the bigger companies who limit themselves to their own IP. Want to play a game in the Hammers Slammers universe? No point in going to GW or PP. Want to play something with heavy armour, but don't want Gothic GrimDark (TM) look and feel to the models? Then you aren't going to find the models and rules on your local high street.

Sure stepping away from the comforts of the big boys does mean you need to let go of the comfort blanket of being spoonfed inspiration (to mix my metaphores horribly). Is it worth it? Only you can tell.

For me, I struggle to find inspiration in bald rulesets with minimal fluff. I treat rules as a necessary evil in the process of getting a game underway. So I find my inspiration in the novels and the models themselves. I get stuff bought and (maybe) painted and then think "what can I play with this?" The only answer is to slog through some indie ruleset! The fact that I find it a chore is to do with the problems of the way my own mind works and the expectations and laziness that I have developed, rather than an inherent problem of the book.

At least that is how I see it. I'll be interested to hear Craig's views more roundly expressed in DYEN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BY the way, a free, and nicely produced indie ruleset that I'd love the D6G to review is the Doctor Who Miniatures Game:


http://www.drwhominiatures.co.uk/

I'm having my first game on Thursday with cardboard miniatures and terrain! Inspired by the new series of DW on the TV I can't wait!

Geek on!

Russ,

I really enjoyed Episode 53, but the WFRP3 review was a bit of a let down. It just felt disjointed and not up to your usual level of quality. You guys do a GREAT show, but in this one case, I feel like you dropped the ball a bit.

Must...compose...letter...begging...for....Runewars!

AnthonyRoberson wrote:Russ,

I really enjoyed Episode 53, but the WFRP3 review was a bit of a let down. It just felt disjointed and not up to your usual level of quality. You guys do a GREAT show, but in this one case, I feel like you dropped the ball a bit.

Hi Anthony,

Well, there are three of us on the show, and we all have different styles. Raef took the lead on the WHFRP review. He has a very different style than I do (which you can tell right in this episode, just compare the Runewars review I lead to the WHFRP review style he lead.)

I'm sure my style appeals to some more than Raef's and vice versa. Which is why we mix it up a bit.

In fact, right in this very thread, earlier up, you can see that some folks have been inspired to check out WHFRP based on Raef's segment.

So sorry it wasn't your cup-o-tea, but I hope you gained some insight into the game from it.

Most importantly, thanks for listening!!!

So, ANYWAYS....

(that was entirely for Craig's benefit)

Just finished the episode this morning. Another good one. I enjoyed both reviews. Funny how you guys make reviews of games I'm not even interested in still interesting. I'm not a role-player at all, but I still enjoyed listening to the Warhammer RPG segment.

The review of Runewars was great, too. That's definitely a game I'm interested in. Only the lack of money keeps me away (hmmm....I should enter that contest!)

All the usual bits were their usual standard of goodness and enjoyability. Thanks guys!

As always, looking forward to the next episode!

Jeff

I think there will come a time when I have to stop listening to D6 to keep myself from wanting every game out there.. (I need to compose my tear-jerking plea for runewars soon)
After having started on episode 50, I have to say that I love the podcast, now that I have acquired the 'Rapid-Fire' taste, and the only bad thing is when it makes me laugh out loud in class. I would definitely give it a 3+ with knockdown; if your first episode doesn't get you, the second one auto-hits.*



*Die-roll rating-system is owned by the D6 generation. Any copying, talking, or thinking of this system will lead to the D6 generation owning your soul. And quite possibly your wallet as well.

Ankhnatu wrote: I would definitely give it a 3+ with knockdown; if your first episode doesn't get you, the second one auto-hits.*

Thanks for the kind words Ankhnatu, and the above line is AWESOME!!

I've been listening to the latest show and wanted to put in my $0.02 about Future War Commander.

I really hope you do a review of this ruleset on a future show. The rules I buy are primarily small press rules and I have been looking at Future War Commander for some time. In response to the price of the book vs. production values, I did want to point out another way to buy the rules. You can buy a print-on-demand copy from Lulu.com for $23.55. A lulu copy will also include the latest errata. The cons of getting a Lulu copy are that the book is in black and white, the paper quality is less than the color version, and the cover has no picture.

However, if the lack of fluff and pretty pictures is an issue this is a way to buy the same set of rules for a cheaper price. If you aren't going to be impressed by the pictures anyway then you don't really need to have them in glossy color. I have bought a few books from Lulu and I have been pleased with all of them. In fact when I buy Future War Commander I will probably get a lulu copy. Great show and I hope to hear that review of Future War Commander soon.

nedpatrick wrote:I've been listening to the latest show and wanted to put in my $0.02 about Future War Commander.

I really hope you do a review of this ruleset on a future show. The rules I buy are primarily small press rules and I have been looking at Future War Commander for some time. In response to the price of the book vs. production values, I did want to point out another way to buy the rules. You can buy a print-on-demand copy from Lulu.com for $23.55. A lulu copy will also include the latest errata. The cons of getting a Lulu copy are that the book is in black and white, the paper quality is less than the color version, and the cover has no picture.

However, if the lack of fluff and pretty pictures is an issue this is a way to buy the same set of rules for a cheaper price. If you aren't going to be impressed by the pictures anyway then you don't really need to have them in glossy color. I have bought a few books from Lulu and I have been pleased with all of them. In fact when I buy Future War Commander I will probably get a lulu copy. Great show and I hope to hear that review of Future War Commander soon.

Good tip on Lulu! That price sounds much more attractive to me based on what little I've seen of the rule book so far.

One friendly request by the way, now that you have the contest e-mail address, any chance you could add that to your Contact Us or Contests page, or both? Thanks.

bbb wrote:So what's the appeal of the Warmaster ruleset? I've heard people speak well of it, but it never seemed to get a large following, so I wasn't sure if it was actually worth looking in to.

The game mimics command and control by making units take command rolls to move/charge/etc.

So high CMD units are literally more reliable with CMD 8 or 9. Lower CMD troops (7 and below)
will not do as they are told half the time.

There's more to it than that, but that's a major feature of the game.

SpookyVeez wrote:One friendly request by the way, now that you have the contest e-mail address, any chance you could add that to your Contact Us or Contests page, or both? Thanks.

Good call. I've added the contest e-mail to the "Contact Us" Page.

did you guys get the horus herasy game yet ! cant wait to hear you guys reveiw it . can you guys do a 40k themed episode? come on do it for craiq and for aLL of us who still have 20,000 ponit imperial guard armies . last show was great . you guys still made me wanna buy a $100. game( warhammer fansty roleplay ) even thouh you guys gave it mediocure reveiw . you guys definately have the magic of making every thing sound great! till next time keep up the great work!!

MattRendar wrote:did you guys get the horus herasy game yet ! cant wait to hear you guys reveiw it . can you guys do a 40k themed episode? come on do it for craiq and for aLL of us who still have 20,000 ponit imperial guard armies . last show was great . you guys still made me wanna buy a $100. game( warhammer fansty roleplay ) even thouh you guys gave it mediocure reveiw . you guys definately have the magic of making every thing sound great! till next time keep up the great work!!

I very much enjoyed my first play through of Horus Heresy. More on that in a future show.

40k themed Episode eh? hmmm....