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Here's my latest attempt at a 2k Dark Elfdar list. The smaller point lists have done quite well for me over the years. I'm not going to bother with unit points, but it comes out (amazingly enough) to exactly 2000 points. If you all want the unit points, I can always edit them in. Hopefully I'll get more response from Dakka than the other forum I posted this on ( 1 will be more!). Anyway, here goes:

HQ-1: Archon on skyboard with splinter pistol, plasma grenades, agoniser, shadowfield, combat
drugs, trophy rack.
HQ-2: Dracon on a jetbike with power weapon, Tormentor helm, combat drugs, plasma gre-
nades.
Troop-1: 13 warriors, 2 dark lances, sybarite w/webway portal.
Troop-2: 14 warriors, 2 dark lances, sybarite w/webway portal.
Troop-3: 8-man raider squad. Blaster, splinter cannon. Raider has night shield, horrorfex.
Troop-4: Same as above.
Troop-5: Same as above, except raider has disintegrator.
Troop-6: same as Troop-5.
Elite-1: 7 wyches w/wyche weapons and plasma grenades. Succubus w/agoniser, wyche
weapons, plasma grenades. Mounted in rauder w/ night shield, horrorfex.
Fast-1: 5 jetbikes, 1 blaster.
Heavy-1: Talos.
Heavy-2: Ravager w/2 disintegrators, night shield.
Heavy-3: Same as Heavy-2.

Note that the 8-man squads are due to my background of the cabal as secret Khorne
worshipers ("the enemy of my enemy...").

I'm curious as to what you all think. I've played the smaller versions (no dracon or jetbikes)
with a very good success rate. Also, I kinda have to keep the night shields, as they're modeled
on as sails ( I was watching Return of the Jedi when I built the first raider. Blame Lucas!)

Durzod wrote:Here's my latest attempt at a 2k Dark Elfdar list. The smaller point lists have done quite well for me over the years. I'm not going to bother with unit points, but it comes out (amazingly enough) to exactly 2000 points. If you all want the unit points, I can always edit them in. Hopefully I'll get more response from Dakka than the other forum I posted this on ( 1 will be more!). Anyway, here goes:

Well, I can give you at least the one. Welcome to Dakka, always good to have more DE here. If you haven't yet please check out my DE Tactica (link is in my sig) I'm always open to hearing any new thoughts or ideas for it, or at least hopefully having a new idea for a reader to find and use.

Now to the list;

HQ-1: Archon on skyboard with splinter pistol, plasma grenades, agoniser, shadowfield, combat
drugs, trophy rack.

Why a Skyboard and not a RJB? Is he going to deepstrike? Getting deep strike is really the only advantage a board has over the RJB (especially if you're equipping a Shadowfield). Also, why the trophy rack? What unit is he joining where the Ld boost is going to be needed?

HQ-2: Dracon on a jetbike with power weapon, Tormentor helm, combat drugs, plasma gre-
nades.

Ouch, I do Not like this. The big issue I have is the power weapon and T.Helm combo. if you're going to use a power weapon, then save the points and just give your Dracon a splinter pistol to get the extra attack, there's no reason to pay the extra points for the T.Helm to get the same effect. Also, if you're going to be on a jetbike and getting the +1 Str boost then I personally think you should always be splurging for the Punisher for an additional +1 Str, giving you a Str 5 Lord (Str 6 w. drugs if you wish) which can be a devestating tool for dealing with Demon Princes, Carnifexes, or even Space Marines (wound on 2+ power weapon? Yes please).

Troop-1: 13 warriors, 2 dark lances, sybarite w/webway portal.
Troop-2: 14 warriors, 2 dark lances, sybarite w/webway portal.

You're a bold man to still want to run WWP, but at 2000 it's not totally out of the pall. My big issue here is that you've taken some squads that are probably generally tough to kill, but that are also likely to be really stationary - so all you're going to be doing is dropping one WWP turn one to advance your board edge approx 12" or whatever the deployment edge is (which means you pretty much might as well have just set up without the webway in my opinion) or you're getting a 6" move plus 1-6 run and the ability to drop it Turn 2 at the cost of not getting to fire two lances that first turn. Mostly I'm looking at these squads and seeing 150+ points you could be spending elsewhere (dropping the Warriors over 10, the Sybs, and the WWPs). That's another Wyche squad in Raider with full upgrades. This is important when you consider that the number of units you're bringing to the table is equal to what a DE army at 1750 might bring. So you're not really that much more dangerous then a 1750 DE army. That's a lot of points.

I personally would, at the very least, tend to have one Webway with a squad in a Raider so that you could deploy it turn 2 up to 24" from your initial deployment location, which offers a lot more tactical flexibility to your army.

Troop-3: 8-man raider squad. Blaster, splinter cannon. Raider has night shield, horrorfex.
Troop-4: Same as above.
Troop-5: Same as above, except raider has disintegrator.
Troop-6: same as Troop-5.

I like these as I'm a big fan of Gunboats and of H.fexes.

Elite-1: 7 wyches w/wyche weapons and plasma grenades. Succubus w/agoniser, wyche
weapons, plasma grenades. Mounted in rauder w/ night shield, horrorfex.

I think you're hurting yourself by not having a second unit of Wyches, as at 2000 there are usually a lot of things calling to be tar-pitted. The individual Wych build here is pretty good though I always add 2x Blasters to my Wych squads. All you lose is 2 Str 3 non power weapon attacks (big whup) and what you gain is 2 Str 8, AP 2 assault shots that will allow your Wyches to threaten vehicles and also soften up heavy armor units better before they charge. That's a really good deal considering how cheap they are.

Fast-1: 5 jetbikes, 1 blaster.

Why only 1 Blaster? You could very easily drop the 14 Warrior squad down to 13 (to match the other one) and be able to afford a 2nd Blaster here. I've also done a fair bit of testing with RJB escorts to a Lord on RJB (which I presume you're doing with this squad - are they escorting just the one or are they guarding both lords? If both this seems a huge point sink and obvious target for your opponent, and it's not that hard of a unit to kill). In any case, my tests with RJB escorts tends to suggest that 3 will serve you just as well as 5, and the 2 extra regular RJBs aren't exactly helping you kill much in either shooting or assault. It'd be a good way to save more points as well.

Heavy-1: Talos.
Heavy-2: Ravager w/2 disintegrators, night shield.
Heavy-3: Same as Heavy-2.

I'm not sure your WWP system will work optimally for a Talos as you aren't going to spare it that much of the walk forward. But overall I like your Heavy slots.

The biggest overall "problem" I have with your army is it looks a lot like a 4th edition list (Vect loadout on Ravagers, use of WWP, use of single larger Wych squad clearly aimed only for h2h combat) and depending on the level of competition you'll be playing the list at more adapted 5th edition lists will probably be able to rip you up pretty well. DE at 2000 are already playing at a bit of a disadvantage so I probably wouldn't want to handicap myself much beyond that personally.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

Thor's comments are spot on.

One big advangate the DE ahve is that their lord can take a retinue. Abuse this. Take 5-9 warriors with a Archon/Dracon in a raider - you ahve a longer assault range and 5-9 ablative wounds for the Archon.

If using WWP - 3 Talos will ruin someone's day. I know that Ravagers are great but if you can get you WWP close enough, 3 Talor popping out in assault range will turn the tide of almost any battle in your favor.

Thanks for the comments. i suppose some explanations are in order.
First, the webway portals: These came into the army after a tournament game where I lost 50% of my boats before I got a turn. There wasn't enough terrain to hide them all. And with 5th Ed's LOS rules, this is even worse! I usually deploy Talos, both foot squads, the Archon, and whatever boats I can hide, then fire off both WWP, giving me a lot of
tactical flexibility.
The Archon always runs alone. Her sole purpose is to disrupt and distract the enemy, which she does really well. I chose the board over a bike strictly on economy. She's just over 150 pts as is, an acceptable cost. A bike'd just add points to no appreciable effect. The agonizer allows her to go hunting Wraithlords, something the Punisher won't do.

The Dracon and bikes are probably going to go once I get another Wyche squad and their raider finished. (I'm an old-school gamer and really don't like fielding unpainted lead{or plastic nowadays}).
I know retinues are all the rage, but I've had too many combat characters dragged off by a single failed morale check by their depleted retinue. Not having the Corpse Emperor's blessing, I can't rally if below 50%. Besides, they wind up being a point sink and the target of every yahoo with a las-gun.
I'll probably throw in the blasters with the Wyches. I've got so many of the models lying around that I might as well. Save me having to cut and paste splinter pistols. And since few players know the difference between a blaster and shredder...
Once I get a few more 5th Ed games with the army under my belt I'll return with more info.

You're right, this is a modified 4th Ed list. It's the result of two of us working on the army for about six months (he played and lost myriad games while I slowly collected models and painted. We both analyzed his games and finally came up with the "Boat People". We terrorized the local community. He gave up with the 5th Ed changes, I persevere. Though with all my armies, the DE don't get the attention they deserve.

Durzod wrote: First, the webway portals: These came into the army after a tournament game where I lost 50% of my boats before I got a turn. There wasn't enough terrain to hide them all. And with 5th Ed's LOS rules, this is even worse! I usually deploy Talos, both foot squads, the Archon, and whatever boats I can hide, then fire off both WWP, giving me a lot of tactical flexibility.

With the new way reserves are handled WWP is less useful as simply a way to protect boats, as you can always protect yourself by going reserve in any case and save the odd 100 points (which for DE is basically another squad of something). Therefore in 5th the concept of using WWPs is to focus on using them to allow strikes deep into enemy lines with a minimum amount of fire sustained - that's why I was reacting to them like I was.

The Archon always runs alone. Her sole purpose is to disrupt and distract the enemy, which she does really well. I chose the board over a bike strictly on economy. She's just over 150 pts as is, an acceptable cost. A bike'd just add points to no appreciable effect. The agonizer allows her to go hunting Wraithlords, something the Punisher won't do.

I have zero problem with an Agoniser on a Lord, if you thought I was implying that be relaxed on the point. My issue was a power weapon as opposed to a Punisher on a bike, which seems a poor idea. As far as saving the 20 odd points by going Skyboard over Bike I suppose that's reasonable especially if you want to stick with an Agoniser. Frankly I run my Agoniser Lords on foot if I field them (nowadays I tend to be all about Punisher Lords who do what Wyches used to do and using Wyches where I might have used Agoniser Lords before)

The Dracon and bikes are probably going to go once I get another Wyche squad and their raider finished. (I'm an old-school gamer and really don't like fielding unpainted lead{or plastic nowadays}).

I will throw in as a thought - for a slight point increase you can get a Dracite instead of a Dracon and have it lead a squad of Wyches (perhaps with no Succubus to save points, think of the Dracite as an uber Succubus). Point for point the Drachite is superior in every way possible to the Dracon unless you want the Dracon to have an Incubi/Warrior retinue.

You're right, this is a modified 4th Ed list. It's the result of two of us working on the army for about six months (he played and lost myriad games while I slowly collected models and painted. We both analyzed his games and finally came up with the "Boat People". We terrorized the local community. He gave up with the 5th Ed changes, I persevere. Though with all my armies, the DE don't get the attention they deserve.

Yeah, the 4th edition mentality was clear to see - which should serve as a potential warning to you as you explore the 5th edition play environment. Still, experience is the best teacher and I'm sure you'll discover what does or doesn't still work for you after a handfull of games and that will give you a better idea of where and why you might wish to adjust the list. I do look forward to seeing your thoughts on how the list is now working for you, I remember when I had to make the shift and it was an interesting experience.

Regards,
Thor.

You've given me a lot of food for thought. I keep forgetting (for example) that I don't have to deploy everything. I'll try dropping the WWP (unless there's a good chance of playing scenarios from the Battle Missions book. I noticed there's a lot of deployment wackiness,which a WWP would mitigate) in favor of another raider squad.

Thanks for t5he input. That's why I posted here. I'm part way thru your article and can tell you know your DE.

I'll probably keep the board, though. There's no room for her pet hormagaunt on a jetbike.

Durzod wrote: I'll probably keep the board, though. There's no room for her pet hormagaunt on a jetbike.

I demand pictures.

Once I figure out how these newfangled cameras work!
I'll include the whole army (all the boats have sails, and the zombie chained to the front of the Haemy jetbike
kinda tickles the fancy.), but it may take a while. My brain came out only 10 years after the Bismarck was sunk, so it's kinda resistant to these new thingies.