Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys, I wanted to create a holy crusader style bretonnian army only using colours of the hospitalier devision (black with white 'templar' crosses). I think the paint scheme will work well but I would like to know if my army list would work too! Many thanks for reading everyone

Bretonnian Hospitalier Crusade Army


HQ
Bretonnian Lord- Warhorse, Banner of the Lady, Virtue of Discipline (in Knights of the Realm unit).
198pts

Damsel- Level 2, 2 dispel scrolls (in Bowman unit).
155pts

Core Units

8 Knights of the Realm- Full command.
220pts

20 Men-at-Arms- Full command.
127pts

16 Bowmen- Braziers.
160pts

5 Bowmen- Skirmishers, braziers
40pts

Rare Units

Field Trebuchet- Craft men.
100pts

Total = 1,000pts

First few thoughts-

You can't take a Lord at 1000 points, at least in this edition. You'll have to settle for a paladin. Your scroll caddy can probably get away with just one scroll at 1000 points, and unless you think you're getting spells off, probably don't need the extra level. Finally, the BSB is a mandatory selection in Bret armies, so you'll need one of those.

I'm not sure if that many peasants will be useful. You might want to drop some and get some more knights- but I'm not a bret player and can't say for certain.

RZ

Even if you were allowed a Lord at this point level, he couldn't carry the Banner of the Lady. Only the (manditory) army BSB can carry the Banner of the Lady... and only Paladins can be BSBs.

Once you make that change (the Lord into Paladin BSB), that leaves you with a Damsel as your general. An iffy choice at best.

I would make the large unit of bowmen your skirmish unit. They will live longer and shoot more that way. Get rid of the small archer unit entirely and bump the MaA up to 2ish so they retain full SCR longer.

Get more knights and make the 16 man squad of bowman skirmishers and drop the other 5. Banner of the lady is well overboard at 1000 pts game just get a bsb with a warbanner and virtue of audicity.Give the damsel 1 scroll and a horse and put in with knights, her magic resistance is wasted with peasants and keep her standard level 1. drop men at arms and get some knights errant for your other heroes to sit with.

Thank you everyone for your fast replies.

I will change the Lord to a Paladin and also remove the banner or virtue then, making him my battle standard bearer.

By removing the 5 skirmishing bowmen I could spend the points better on something else or fine tuneing other units I have listed.

Many thanks

From a purely historical point of view, a few things - first, its Hospitallers (2 Ls, 1 I) or, more strictly, the 'Knights Hospitaller of the Order of St John of Jerusalem' to give them their full title.

Secondly, the order wore black in combat in its early years (12th and early 13th century) but the black robes (or Kappas) had sleeves and hood and completely covered up the armour. In the mid 13th century they changed to wearing red surcoats in battle (which given the bretonnian late 13th/early 14th century aesthetic) would seem more appropriate.

Finally, what do mean by a 'Templar Cross'? If you're thinking of the 8-pointed 'Maltese' cross this is way out. The templars bore a small red cross over their left breast and a larger one on the left shoulders of their cloaks but in both cases this was a normal cross that widened slightly at the tips. The templars shields and banners did not have a cross at all (they were simply split in two with the top half black and the bottom half white).
The Hospitallers wore crosses closer in design to a modern-day Maltese cross (in so far as they had 8 points - representing the 8 beatitudes) but were basically white crosses that widened at the tips before separating into two points at the end. Basically if you draw a cross, widen it on each 'arm' and the cut a triangle out of the end you'll get the idea.
During their early years when they fought in black, these crosses were to be found on the front of their kappas (either centrally or over the left breast), on the left shoulder of their cloaks and in the centre or top right (as seen from the front) of their shields.
When they changed to red surcoats, the cross was retained on the front but the shield changed to match the banner design (see below).

At ALL times their banner has been the banner of St John (Red with a white cross that goes all the way to the edge, similar to the Danish flag)

hope this is useful info for you,

Regards,
Brother Tancred, Knights Hospitaller Association.

Thank you Chimera_Calvin for your help. I wanted to keep to the black and white imagery as I like its simple, clean style. The 'templar cross' I refered to was actually ment like a cross similar to the Black Templar Space Marine symbol, so I know where your coming from.

Here is my revamped armylist

HQ

Paladin- Warhorse, heavy armour, shield, lance of Artois, Virtue of Duty, Knights vow (in a Knights of the Realm unit).
126pts

Paladin Battle Standard Bearer- Sword of might (in unit of Men-at-Arms)
94pts

Damsel- Level 1, 2 dispel scrolls (in Bowman unit).
120pts


Core Units

5 Knights of the Realm- Full command with warbanner. Lances, heavy armour, shield.
169pts

5 Knights of the Realm- Full command with warbanner. Lances, heavy armour, shield.
169pts

20 Men-at-Arms- Full command.
127pts


16 Bowmen- Braziers.
96pts


Rare Units

Field Trebuchet- Craftmen.
100pts

Total = 100,1pts

5 man knight units dont really work 6 at least so at least you get +1 for 1 rank, you want your bsb in the knights for reroll. your men at arms are not gunna kill anything and will break so easily so its wasted there.Your bowman need skirmish and they dont need a damsel its wasting magic resistance.

Actually... a full SCR unit with a Pally BSB to back them up will hold pretty well against most common (i.e. core) units. Might even be able to take a heavy cav charge and break them in the second turn (once the lances become a liability rather than an asset).

Remember: Peasants roll on the leadership of any knight within 6" (I think), and the BSB allows them a reroll. SCR and kills from the pally should do the rest.

I disagree core dwarfs/lizardmen/chaos/elfs etc will not loose to peasants and if they have a hero and challenge your bsb your in trouble.At least with knights as you charge you get to strike 1st even if they challenge your bsb. And if he stays back with the peasants the other knights will be out of range of his re-roll.

If he sends his hardcore stuff against the men at arms, the knights are going to rip his line apart while the men at arms hold a turn or two (reroll Ld 8-9, depending on whether the general is close). In that case, the men at arms have done their duty dying for king and country.