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Hi All

this is the list i've been using at my FLGS for 1500 point games, I've had two games with it (one win and one loss) but feel it needs some amending.

HQ = 145
CCS – Col Lynch
Regimental Standard
2 x Plasma
Medic
Carapace

Troop 1 = 480

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar - Genk

2x inf squad
2x AC
2x GL

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Elite
Marbo - Hondo

Fast Attack = 365

Devil Dog w MM
2 x sct sent w AC
2x arm sent w PC

Heavy = 290
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF

Now this is my proposed new list, its not that different, but i've got 95 points left and was wondering what you guys think i should invest in. I'm thinking either a griffon (just because I have one), upgrading the blob (PW or MB or both) or buying a chimera for the CCS.

HQ = 90
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta

Troop 1 = 505

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar

2x inf squad
2x AC
Commissar

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack = 365

Devil Dog w MM
2 x sct sent w AC
2x arm sent w PC

Heavy = 290
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF

So what you guys think?

Does the CCS not have a chimera? A unit with 4 meltas and no ablative wounds is going to do absolutely nothing if it doesn't have a transport.

My solution to that would be to scrap the armoured sentinels for a valkyrie/vendetta. Compare armoured sentinels to chimeras/hydras - they aren't cheap for the armour upgrade you're getting. And compare the plasma-cannon type to a demolisher/executioner, you're not really getting those AP2 blasts for a bargain price either.

If you don't like planes, at least scrap the armoured sentinels for a chimera and something else.

Are 2 commissared blobs really necessary? I would suggest either 1 20-man blob with commissar and HWTs (to hold objectives) and 1 30-man blob with commissar and power weapons + special weapons (to go take objectives).

If that much infantry/such a big change doesn't appeal, I'd just scrap the smaller blob for some HWS - you don't need 2 blobs with the same role IMO.

For the spare 95 points, here are some suggestions: Hydra, griffon, or if you have some spare points from other changes, another PCS w//flamers and chimera (assuming you keep enough infantry to make 2 platoons) or a hellhound w/multimelta.

Hope that helps.

I-bounty-hunt-the-elderly - thanks for the response, most appreciated. You've raised good points, some new ones and some familar from my previous lists.

Does the CCS not have a chimera? A unit with 4 meltas and no ablative wounds is going to do absolutely nothing if it doesn't have a transport

Nope not at the moment, normally they just sit behind the gunlines and issue orders, but with the spare 95 can easily fit one in.

Previously they had plasma but I've been less than impressed with Plasma on infantry, I was spending 50 points trying to keep them alive from their own guns. The melta Idea was because in my first game a drop pod with a dreadnought landed in the middle of my army and I thought melta would be better at dealing with that than plasma.

My solution to that would be to scrap the armoured sentinels for a valkyrie/vendetta. Compare armoured sentinels to chimeras/hydras - they aren't cheap for the armour upgrade you're getting. And compare the plasma-cannon type to a demolisher/executioner, you're not really getting those AP2 blasts for a bargain price either.

You called it i'm not a fan of planes, just not what i think of when I think of the guard. The sents arn't cheap and I admitt they are a second string option for a lot of people but discounting the fact I own the models they are the same price as Hydra/Griffon and add plasma to my army. Admittedly they come in only at 15 point cheaper than a demolisher but they do offer slightly more range. In later lists when I have more models they will probably be dropped but for the time being they fill a hole in my army.

Are 2 commissared blobs really necessary? I would suggest either 1 20-man blob with commissar and HWTs (to hold objectives) and 1 30-man blob with commissar and power weapons + special weapons (to go take objectives).

At first I didn't think so, but then I had to role for the 20 man blobs leadership, 14 men died while running away (not on my watch). Also it doesn't matter if I designate one as fire support they'll end up in assualt at some point especially given how assault based most other armies are. Having two builds in a certian level of redundancy.

However I do like your idea of turning one into an assault unit though but I don't want to lose my 30 man hvy weapon team and i'm not sure if the 20 would be enough. Ideally platoons would be 6 squads instead of five, so the only way I can get round the problem would to have a second platoon. I've been advised against taking a second platoon when the first hasn't been filled but I might have a juggle and see how easy it would be to do.


Thanks again. Do you think Melta bombs on the sargeants would be worth it?

How about this:

drop the plasma sentinels (-150)

buy a chimera for CCS (+55)

Start a new platoon, PCS w/4 flamers and chimera (+105)

Add a new infantry squad (+~70), making 2 platoons, each with a mechanised command squad and a 30-man blob.

Then, if you want, you can still have 1 HW blob and 1 assault blob.

OR

If you don't want to buy any chimeras, I would suggest switching the CCS to a regimental standard and a HWT. That would give you points for a light vehicle + a scout sentinel; or (if you dropped some upgrade, like the devil dog's MM) 2 HWSs, or another basilisk.

I suppose all my suggestions end in buying more models, but I think that's the point of a good guard list - cram as much points-efficient stuff on the board as possible.

I suppose all my suggestions end in buying more models, but I think that's the point of a good guard list - cram as much points-efficient stuff on the board as possible.

It's not just you, everyones suggestions always involve buying more models , I agree and I would like to run a good list. Adding more infantry isn't really going to be problem vehicles may hurt it was already looking like an expensive month, any major changes may have to wait till July.

The second platoon might be the way to go, I'll do some math and see what I come up with.

Ok I did some juggling and came up with two lists, the first one i'm not so mad on. I think i've gone OTT with upgrades and i'd be losing all my sents, I do gain more killy blobs, 15 more troops and 2 chimeras.

HQ = 145
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta
Chimera w ML/HF

Troop 1 = 405

PCS –
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar
4 x PW
3x Melta bombs

Troop 2 - 360

PCS –
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x inf squad
3x GL
Commissar
4x PW
3x Melta bombs

Troop 3 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack
Devil Dog w MM

Heavy = 290
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF

Total 1490.

The second list is the list I proposed in the first post but with a few minor amendments.

HQ = 145
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta
Chimera

Troop 1 = 505

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar
3x Melta bombs

2x inf squad
2x GL
Commissar
3x PW
2x MB

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack = 285

Devil Dog w MM
2x arm sent w PC

Heavy = 365
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF
Griffon w HF

total - 1500

Which do you prefer? Have I gone silly with upgrades?

I think the first of those 2 lists is better. Maybe take all autocannons in the infantry instead of lascannons and GLs, or use meltas/flamers instead of GLs.

If you take the second list, I would advise replacing armoured sentinels + griffon, with outflanking scout sentinels + another tank or big artillery piece.

Seconded on the outflanking scout sentinels. Get the of them with multilasers popping off a random side.... that's 9 Str 6 shots into something that really didn't want to get hit by that.

Other than that, I'm not good at commenting on IG so I'll leave it to bounty. All I know is, IG depends on the fact you can take a crapload of cheap firepower, so you should take advantage of that and build some redundancy into your army.

Not sure how to do it, but hey! That's what actual guard players are for.

I think the first of those 2 lists is better. Maybe take all autocannons in the infantry instead of lascannons and GLs, or use meltas/flamers instead of GLs.

If you take the second list, I would advise replacing armoured sentinels + griffon, with outflanking scout sentinels + another tank or big artillery piece.

Not sure about the all AC idea, AC is good against Orks but starts to get unreliable on anything over AV10, and the idea behind having one with Gl's was to keep them a little more mobile. I chose GL other flamers because of the range, flamers wouldn't do anything until just before you assaulted, and in my experience my flamers, if on foot, don't get to shoot at all as they get assaulted before I can assault. IMHO The only reason flamers would be better would be if I hid the blob behind the LC and used them to counter assault who ever wiped out LC blob

Why do you hate my armored sentinels so

Another big gun would be nice, probably a second demolisher, but not sold on the Sct sents. They'll only be where I want them to be 66% of the time and I generally try to kill transports turn 1. Don't get me wrong I do like them but I don't think they will give me a huge advantage or disadvantage if I don't take them and if it a choice between them and my Arm sent i'd rather take the plasma. Saying this I'll have a think over the weekend, a second demolisher would add the AP2 I want and might be enough to convince me to drop the arm sents.

Seconded on the outflanking scout sentinels. Get the of them with multilasers popping off a random side.... that's 9 Str 6 shots into something that really didn't want to get hit by that.

Thanks for posting, I do like my scout sents but I've only got the 2 and wouldn't use multilasers, if I take them it has to be AC. Prefer the extra S to the extra shot.

Ok sorry for the delay, I had a rethink and have redone the list with no sentinels

HQ = 145
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta
Chimera

Troop 1 = 565

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar
3x Melta bombs

2x inf squad
2x GL
Commissar
3x PW
2x MB

HWS -mortars (I know but I had 60 points left)

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack
Devil Dog w MM

Heavy = 455
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF
Demolisher w HF

Ok the extra demolisher covers the AP2 hole left by the removal of the armored sentinels. Or should I swap the second Demolisher for a manticore? i'm tempted by the new model.
I thought the mortars could hide in cover on an objective or behind my LC blob. Not sure about them but I had 60 points left and thought the pinning might come in handy, or is this a complete waste? should I use the extra 60 to pimp the Heavy support out some more?
I thought about switching the DD for a HH as I've got a fair bit of melta/S10 already and a HH would act like another flamer PCS.

as always thanks for reading and all comments welcome.

Personally I would try to drop a few points and go with 2 LC heavy weapons teams and remove the 3 from one blob.

Try to put 3 grenade launchers in the 30 man and keep the ones in the 20 man.

It is hard to tell what to remove. Maybe use a a standard russ instead of a demolisher. Great for infanty and ok against tanks, should open enough up for at least the LC HW squads.

2 sets of LC, 2 chimeras with 3-4 meltas a demolisher and a bassie should be enough anti armor to get rid of the ones that really hurt. 2 large squads running in for the kill and a dog and LR to thin out the squads is not too bad.

Hi Lorne thanks for responding, do you not think LOS HWS are a little vulnerable?

were you thinking something like this

HQ - 145
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta
Chimera

Troop 1 = 665

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

2x inf squad
2x GL
Commissar
2x PW
2x MB

2x inf squad
2x GL
Commissar
2x PW
2x MB

HWS - 3x LasC
HWS - 3x LasC

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack
Devil Dog w MM

Heavy = 415
Basilisk
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF

to get the two LC HWS and to make both blobs assualt based I had to drop one of the Inf squads, lessen the number of PW in the squads and there wasn't enough left for a Russ so added another bassie instead. I'm not sure about this list, HWS worry me they're small and have bad leadership. Although I love Basilisks this list sees me loosing an AV14, s10 vehicle .

I personally do not worry about the HWS, the LC cannot reliably hurt av 14. I find they act more as a distraction force then a real threat.

Anything that can hit your HWS from a distance is also going to be an anti tank weapon. If they waste a round of shooting at a HWS then it is one less thing hitting a tank.

With 2 bassies hitting their side armor on the first turn and getting 2 dice to pen, a demo hitting them on turn 2 and 2 chims with meltas hitting them on turns 2-3 plus a devil dog and a flamer chim coming in they may have other targets.

I know what you mean though something still does not quite feel right. I need to start bringing my dex's to work for points value

Oh for flamer chims if you have not assembled them yet I prefer the flamer turret HB mount. Then you can pull up beside the squad you want to flame, turn the turret and use your 4 flame templates from the hatch.

I like a flamer on my devil dog for the dual template punch but the MM would add more anti tank options.

Perhaps lose the MB's on the blob squads and spring for a PF that will add the third special weapon and give you some semi anti tank and allow you to hit something harder and add the third CC weap. Lets admit it guard are not going to have a higher I then anything on the board if they tie it is a miracle.

I still feel that the loss of that other 10 men is a little painfull. In your ccs you specify Col Lynch, is he a special char that I can not think of or just your commanders name. Forgive me I do not play special chars.

I personally do not worry about the HWS, the LC cannot reliably hurt av 14. I find they act more as a distraction force then a real threat.

Anything that can hit your HWS from a distance is also going to be an anti tank weapon. If they waste a round of shooting at a HWS then it is one less thing hitting a tank.

With 2 bassies hitting their side armor on the first turn and getting 2 dice to pen, a demo hitting them on turn 2 and 2 chims with meltas hitting them on turns 2-3 plus a devil dog and a flamer chim coming in they may have other targets.

good point didn't really look at it that way, and if I can grab them some cover they should be ok sitting on the backfield.

I know what you mean though something still does not quite feel right. I need to start bringing my dex's to work for points value

yeah definatley feel like i'm missing something, maybe its just nerves about charging my blobs, I normally don't move them. for the dex at work, do most of my Dakka posting at work, even painted some models one lunch time

Oh for flamer chims if you have not assembled them yet I prefer the flamer turret HB mount. Then you can pull up beside the squad you want to flame, turn the turret and use your 4 flame templates from the hatch.

unfortunatley so.

Perhaps lose the MB's on the blob squads and spring for a PF that will add the third special weapon and give you some semi anti tank and allow you to hit something harder and add the third CC weap. Lets admit it guard are not going to have a higher I then anything on the board if they tie it is a miracle.

I still feel that the loss of that other 10 men is a little painfull. In your ccs you specify Col Lynch, is he a special char that I can not think of or just your commanders name. Forgive me I do not play special chars.

The blobs can't take power fists, if I recall corectly only CCS, PCS and vets can. It is a real pain.

I'd love to be able to take a larger CC blob but I can't do it with the two LasC. If i drop the melta bombs they'll come unstuck against walkers and other vehicles and if I drop the power weapons things like deffkopta become a pain.

Sorry for the confusion Lynch is just the name I gave him for my battle reports, I don't use any special either. I've used Marbo a few times and I like him but he's an easy KP and demo charge never seems to work as well as I want it to.
Although I have thought about Al'rahem, for an infantry heavy army I'm working on.

Commisars can't take a PF? Take it on him an 2 PS's on the sergents. I was thinking the fist to deal with walkers and kopta's but I thought you advanced the blobs to take objectives so you could lose the GL's.

How do you play your army?

Commisars can't take a PF?

Commissars can only take a PF if they are in a CCS, PCS or Vets squad. I was horrifed, means guard can't copy orks and hide a power fist in with 30 guys.

How do you play your army?

Well the original army I posted at the begining of this thread is the first 1500 army i've built only really used it twice, i'm generaly quite static, still haven't quite got the hang on deployment tbh or when to charge and when to shoot. Bit of a noob.

Basically the Blobs formed a gunline on my objective/deployment side with the basilisk and CCS behind them (preferably in cover turn 1). The armor sentinels support the blobs, scout sentinels and marbo in reserve. On one flank I have the melta vets and the DD on the other Demolisher and PCS Chimera.

meltavets Devildog infsquad/infsquad/infsquad infsquad/infsquad Demolisher FlamerPCS

__________________arm sents Basilisk CCS_________________________________

of course this varies a little with deployment/mission type plus enemy deployment if I go second, ideally the the DD and melta vets leap frog toward any big armor threats, generally try to double team them, demolisher advances with PCS to claim/clear objectives. Everything else trys to pop transports before they can get to my line.

Like I said bit of a noob so still trying to find my feet/play style as i've only played 8 games and only 2 at 1500 points.

I am thinking with this one, a bassie and a LC team (in cover) in each corner, spread apart to avoid templates and a charge from whatever may hit one of them. Your one blob holding whatever objective is in your area. Everyone else racing forward on tracks to take on the enemy being supported by your long range teams. Meltas go for heavy armor supported by your DD/cs if there is something good to template inside. If not keep your cs near your blob.

I was thinking you should switch your ccs meltas with your cs flamers and keep your ccs in between your blobs for support/orders and let the cs go suicide melta with the vets.

Thats an idea, PCS will miss more but they are more expendable.

Flamers are kind of a waste on the ccs though. Something that uses that bs4 would be more useful.

yeah, I think this list needs a rethink. Plus I think i've got my math wrong somewhere along the line. I think this list is running a 1535 and i don't know where to drop the points from. The LasC HWS are a nice idea but they're costly.

Thanks for all the input but I think i'm going to scrap this list for the time being. I'm going to use what i've got at the moment which is

HQ = 145
CCS – Col Lynch
4 xMelta
Chimera

Troop 1 = 505

PCS – Lt Pickett
4 x Flamers
Chimera –HF/ML

3x Inf squad - combined
3x LC
Commissar
3x Melta bombs

2x inf squad
2x GL
Commissar
3x PW
2x MB

Troop 2 = 155

Vets
Shotguns
3x Melta
Chimera –HF/ML

Fast Attack = 285

Devil Dog w MM
2x arm sent w PC

Heavy = 365
Basilisk
Demolisher w HF
Griffon w HF

total - 1500

its built, I think i've got all the bases covered and I want to play test it. I'm working on a new list with Al'rahem, all infantry except for a basilisk and two manticores, ws tempted to maybe add him to the above list, drop the plaxma sents get a couple of sct sents, have the whole platoon outflanking with sentiel support, would probably need and astrpath in it though.

Once again Lorne thanks for all the help,