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I am weak. I am GW's biatch. Even after the reviews, even disliking what I'd seen, I broke down and bought the effen' army box- mostly so I could get the Army Book without having to wait until now (January.)

Oh, GW, thou cunning bastards! How well thou know'st my frailty!

And so I got out the new boys and played with them. You know what? The close combat troops don't TOTALLY suck. I put together a few Halberdiers to see what they looked like, and actually they don't look so bad at all. Maybe it is the angle they were photographed at, but I hate them less. I still revile the barefoot guy, though. And the standard is unbalanced no matter how you position it. On the other hand, the missle troops are truly awful. They are hunched over uncomfortably, and the gun is WAY too big, and they only way to make a handgunner unit that looks believeable is to scratch-build some gun rests for them. Truly awkward is the dude you give the repeater handgun to, since he is holding it up, not firing- the hunch in his back is particularly unconvincing. I ended up putting the repeater handgun on one of the close combat torsos, and it was much better. The powder monkey is just... creepy.

The fire wizard is hilarious. I will have to paint this guy up just for giggles.

The general/standard bearer is so nice, I may have to buy another one just to get the modelling possibilities out of my system.

Nice new horses for the pistoliers/outriders. I very much dislike the outrider cloaks, though.

All the other models are old school. Nothing to see there.

Has anyone else noticed? Does the plastic GW is using now seem... cheaper? More brittle? One of my big complaints about the SST figs was the low quality of the plastic (styrene glue did not affect them!) and the latest GW stuff seems to be like that. The Giants weren't... .

Posted By Manfred von Drakken on 01/19/2007 7:31 PM
A side note about the skulls on the soldiers: In the Empire, soldiers wear ravens' skulls to ward off either bad luck or harm.

Okay.  Now explain the human skulls.  Sentimentality? Dearly departed relatives?   And what about the various tibias & femurs these guys are toting around- snacks?

Photos

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Some poorly lit photos of the new State Troops standard bearer.  And now, and overexposed one:

The Empire worships a large assortment of gods, including Morr, the god of death. Perhaps wearing skulls is some kind of superstitious thing, kind of a living guy in a dead man's clothing?

I'll buy that.

Posted By Tigerone on 01/19/2007 12:35 PM
wow, i just have to ask - does anyone EVER say anything positive on these forums? I don't think there's been a single new mini that's come out from GW that the people here didn't complain about constantly.

You know what folks - We know the new Empire heads don't look like scholars, but do you all have to breathe fire every time something isn't JUST how you wanted it?

I love you Tigerone!!!!!!111one

Was that positive enough?  Kisses! :kiss: :heart: :kiss: :heart: :kiss:

Posted By fellblade on 01/19/2007 5:23 PM

But for every cool well-sculpted centerpiece model there are five spraddle-legged hunchback barefoot mouthbreathers...

So they're like women?

Oh, I'm terrible...

Not only is the pricing ridiculous, you get very little bang for your buck with the mono-pose figures that have little to no interchangeability between other kits (even just other Empire kits), now contain half the number of figures per box and are even more difficult to make unique than before.

Jojo's thoughts on the new empire pricing:
Old box:
16 models for $35
$2.1875 each

New box:
10 models for $22
$2.20 each

Cost to buy 10 soldiers at old box price:
$21.88
Cost to buy 10 soldiers at new box price:
$22.00

Conclusion:
People complaining about the price change with the new boxes are essentially crying about 12 cents. Never mind the fact that the new empire soldier box can be assembled with any of the unit options, unlike the former box's limitation to halberds/swords.

Since the argument against GW pricing is pretty much moot, what then can we say about the criticisms leveled at the new style of single pose models?
Well, how many people actually fully convert their rank and file infantry for their warhammer armies? If my gaming club is anything to go by, I'd say 1 in 30.

The likely reason GW has moved towards single pose models is to facilitate units actually ranking up. That considered, should we really be whining about the lack of potential for converting when having units rank up is an issue that definitely affects a majority of gamers?
I don't think so. GW's a business. They want to please the most consumers and the new style of models are likely a good way of doing it.

This is just another example of why dakka has a reputation for being a cesspool of baseless whining.

On the new figure counts...
Assuming your ultimate goal is to field 25 infantry, an optimum unit size in order to achieve full rank while being functional:

Under the old box:
2 sets $35.00 - $70.00
2.80 each, with 7 extra models

Under the new box:
3 sets at $22.00 - $66.00
2.64 each, with 5 extra models

Factoring in the primary goal of achieving the ideal unit size, it costs more to achieve this with the old box than it does with the new. Before, the cost per model for the 25 in the unit came to 2.80 each and you received an extra 7 models. Now, to reach the same optimum size, to reach 25 models, it costs you 2.64 each, although you end up with 2 less extra models.

I'm assuming some will question why I've included the cost of the extra models in the cost per model. I've done so because it reflects the reality that WFB players generally field defined unit sizes. For the defined purpose of reaching a unit of 25, you end up with extra models which, relative to the unit you're trying to field, have no function and are simply an extraneous cost.
Unless you set out to assemble another unit of empire soldiers, which is an assumption I am not including in this basic analysis, the extra models have no definable value in the fielding of your army.

While I am not an accountant, based on what I've just written, it seems to me that once again, the new boxes are a better buy.

I really don't see what the problem is. They look fine to me; even the barefoot guy (let's face it; barefoot soliders are all too common throughout history!). My only beef is that apparantly I can't use my free company bits to convert them due to scale differences. Even so, I'll probably buy a box when I need more Mordheim henchmen.

Have you actually tried to rank up the new models? They are no easier to rank up than before; in fact, when built as swordsmen, the old models rank up better than the new ones. Regardless of equipment, the second + ranks end up poking the guys in front, tangling weapons, etc.

The new figures have somewhat more dynamic poses, but this is not automatically a good thing.

And you cannot say the new boxes are a 'better buy' if the buyer perceives them to be of lower quality than what they are replacing.

We're a cesspool of baseless whining?    ...cool.

Posted By jojo_monkey_boy on 01/21/2007 2:28 PM
Not only is the pricing ridiculous, you get very little bang for your buck with the mono-pose figures that have little to no interchangeability between other kits (even just other Empire kits), now contain half the number of figures per box and are even more difficult to make unique than before.

GW's a business. They want to please the most consumers and the new style of models are likely a good way of doing it.

This is just another example of why dakka has a reputation for being a cesspool of baseless whining.

Now while I agree with you on pricing...for empire stuff. But you are generalizing with vitriol towards the poulation as a whole.

You have taken the only post in this thread that could even be remotely be considered a whine towards pricing and basically implied that everyone is whining.

It seems to me, Tim, that the only reason you post here anymore is to complain yourself.

If you were trying to put perspective on the issue of pricing in this thread (which there wasnt any dectectable amount of) that would be one thing. But it appears you have rolled in on your hobby high horse proclaiming Dakka as a whole is a cesspool.

Less than constructive and baseless considering this thread is more about subjective criticism regarding the sculpting and the perceived value for the cost. Direct it at the poster, and not the populace.

The new boxes for people who like the new sculpts, are a better buy. But the people who dont like the new sculpts, which dont seem to be a huge overwhelming minority, view tha value differently.

It seems to me, Tim, that the only reason you post here anymore is to complain yourself.

I like to think of it as balancing out the universe.

If nyarly wants to make totally rediculous statements on a public forum, I should be every bit as entitled to shoot them down.
Further, my comment about dakka being a cesspool applies well beyond this thread. It just so happened that nyarly's comments demonstrated so perfectly what dakka has a reputation for.

Ah, jojo. Funny thing about that pricing, seems that the market doesn't agree with you there, what with sales slumping and all. Could it be they put out one too many overpriced kits? I dunno...

Posted By jojo_monkey_boy on 01/21/2007 6:49 PM
I like to think of it as balancing out the universe.

The universe doesn't need balancing, and neither do my assault cannons!  Hurr!!

That emoticons makes me hot.

I...I just like the old Empire plastics better...that's all. I'm not a communist! I swear! Please put the pillowcase down!

Malfred's grammar makes me hot.

At the end of the day, you just have to say who gives a flying flagellant. It is just toy soldiers, after all.

Posted By syr8766 on 01/21/2007 7:39 PM
I...I just like the old Empire plastics better...that's all. I'm not a communist! I swear! Please put the pillowcase down!

No pillowfight then?  Darn.

You and I can still have our pillowfight...

Where does he get such wonderful toys?

Er, I mean emoticons.

They were brought to us a gifts by aliens. Kyoto is behind it somehow I'm sure.








the answer you seek is something awful...