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Well...what do you mean 'at the same time'.

You still need to target one unit at a time. (Unless they bunch up in which case they deserve it).

Vindi has it's perks...but it still has a fat side armor, requires a range to engage that is somewhat dangerous to it's own health and one pays for it and it's ONE gun, which to some is a big negative as well.

If you want to poo poo Oblits, start a new thread. I think this has gone too far off course...

Random note:
My 4th post in this thread was directed at Night Lords, not you Mozzyfuzzy.

My note about "all heavys 'work'" was a general statment leading into the whole: anything goes for heavy support as they are all useful and just depend on personal taste.

With heavy support meaning a focus on Defilers, Oblits, and Vindis.

Vindicators have their purpose but i have never had my obliterators fail like i have predators. With some good positioning on first turn my opponent can easily glace a vindicator and at least shake it, thus reducing its effectiveness. Or if they are lucky they could destroy or immobilize a vindicator on first or second turn.

Obliterators are smaller and overall harder to kill. With 2+ armor and 5+ invulnerable obliterators are hard to kill.

Also a squad of 3 obliterators have the same ammount of lascannons as well as many other options, the best being plasma cannons and multi-meltas imo. Obliterators are far more versatile and have rarely failed for me.

I second Mrwittwer's post.
But to balance things out, they are not the no-brainer choice.
They have thier limitations just like any other unit.

One con many point out is that they are expensive for the number of effective weapons you can shoot.
But the fact is, one pays for the flexibility, where you don't need to tailor a unit to a particular role.

The Jack of All Trades is the master of none...except for when the issue is: where can I get plasma cannons in the Chaos Army list....then your options are Dreadnought or Oblit.....

If you've got points to spare from whatever choices you make, why not take both? Or unless im being stupid you can't take to Heavy support choices.


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Oh and I was just joking about poo pooing the oblits

In my opinion, vindicators are the "worst" option to suggest (maybe the land raider). When I say "worst", I mean that it's least fluid with most lists. I think if you were to run vindis you'd need to have a specific plan to keep them alive.

Oblits in this sense are the "best" option because they are flexible. However, in my opinion, there are far better combinations if you put a little bit of thought into it.

Theres also the fact that everyone knows how to play against oblits. After reading some suggestions in another topic about taking down a predator tank, I was laughing. People were suggesting things that have a 1% chance to take down a pred.

This unknown factor is one nobody ever takes into account. Everyone knows what youre going to do when you put DP/Oblits/PMs on the field - but what if your opponent had a 2 vindicators, and a landraider (not saying this is a good idea) along with some noise marines? Even though I play the army, I wouldnt be sure wtf he is thinking.

Point is, dont dismiss any units unless they are completely outperformed (like possessed) or can never be viable due to cost (bikes).

** A Planet far far away explodes as I get ready to say**

I second Night Lord's post. Very leveled and balanced.

I will say that possessed are a mile ahead of the bikes ironically enough. They will perferm very well if tasked with counter assault. Zerkers too, but they have less variety (which isn't exactly a tactical reason...but oh well).

I find that with possesed, it'll either go really well or thell die in the first turn of the game. And I know other units a reall good/bad sometimes but at least with zerkers ther's a good chance they will get into cc and perform resonable well.



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I find that with possesed, it'll either go really well or thell die in the first turn of the game. And I know other units a reall good/bad sometimes but at least with zerkers ther's a good chance they will get into cc and perform resonable well.

@Mozzyfuzzy:

Wouldn't it be the other way around.
Possessed would have a rhino as much as zerkers would.
What makes possessed easier to down when compared to zerkers?
What makes possessed more a threat than a zerker squad?

First turn, that must have been some decent amount of shooting.
Killing a rhino is not hard, but then the 8-10 guys in 4+cover, 5++ if not cover/armor allowed, and a 1/6 for FNP, or 1/6 for a scout move to get behind cover to give the rhino cover saves.

Etc.

As said elsewhere, possessed are a matter of, how do I apply what I get. And having a role that suits whatever is rolled.

I may have exagerrated a bit when i said first turn, but my rhino's are taken up carrying zerkers (as I belive in tying enemy squads fire up while my shooty units get close(mainly my normal csm and my noise marines)), so i've got to send them footslogging

Speaking of Chaos elite units whats your view on Chosen?

Don't.

More? Well, infiltrating rules are pretty strict, limiting the usefulness of the special weapons.

So...the only real competitive usage for them would be outflanking them with....what ever special weapon that suits your fancy.
Since they can load up on alot, you can spam one kind, or take an even mix...it doesn't cost a whole lot and doesn't dim their effectiveness that much.

But...I rather bit the bullet and forgo the extra 2-3 special weapons and just get regular CSM and be happy that they score.

/Shrug, I don't think very highly of them, but I know many do like the number of special weapons they can bring.

I've found that chosen are best used with mark of nurgle and allying with a daemon army that has epidermus cos of the "my awesome powers apply to all nurgle units. lololololololol" rule.

Well.... I never include doubles in my opinions on singles lists...as I assumed it would be.

Lots of crazy things happen with doubles, nothing to really peak my interest in a serious discussion.

Don't forget, they get an ICON of Nurgle, that bestows the mark.
If that dies (not to hard) then there goes the bonuses.

Chosen seem like a great idea outflanking...but then you realize if you equip them with anything worthwhile, you might as well get terminators instead. BUT, like I said, maybe in a list that forces/entices opponents to move along the board edge (land raider rush up the middle for example), the player may benefit from chosen. Its good to keep an open mind.