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What in hell do you know about warfare?

Well, I've received 12 months of 24 hours per day 7 days per week military training. In addition to that I'm a university graduate and am quite interested in history. I've never been in a war, but I have a hunch that overall I might know more than the average person in this thread.

I actually quite shocked many here are so nonchalant about this.

Who wouldn't be? Before they all jumped on me, I said I was only interested in seeing what their reaction would be. The reaction is defensive in the extreme. Deny the facts, imagine a bunch of hostile situations, and make blanket statements about how dangerous it is 'out there for our boys' like it would somehow wash the blood off the chopper crews' hands.

Therion wrote:

What in hell do you know about warfare?

Well, I've received 12 months of 24 hours per day 7 days per week military training. In addition to that I'm a university graduate and am quite interested in history. I've never been in a war, but I have a hunch that overall I might know more than the average person in this thread.

Let's apply internet law, no opinion until you've been there.

LuciusAR wrote:It's pretty cut and dry to me. The Helicopter crew opened fire on a group of civilians with virtually no credible indication of any weapons. They then fired again on an unmarked van that was picking up the bodies again with no indication of any threat.

I certainly don't believe all US soldiers are evil scum murderers and certainly wouldn't dream of using this to make a cheap point about the war or US armed forces in general, of whom I'm certain the vast majority are brave and honorable people.

But I think it's fecking disgraceful that this particular incident was whitewashed and I don't think its unreasonable to wonder if other such incidents have been hushed up. I would expect a court marshal for all concerned at the very least.

I actually quite shocked many here are so nonchalant about this.

Except once again, it wasn't whitewashed and you're seeing 17 minutes out of 42 minutes of guncamera footage from an Apache that was flying cover for a raid in that district.
The raid netted a high ranking insurgent target, and began to come under heavy fire--which led to the Apaches being called in.
The two reporters weren't wearing any identifying press markers, also, which means again--it's their own damned fault.

And once again:

If it's not an "official" ambulance or marked with a red cross and it stops to pull in wounded "hostiles", it's a target.
End of story.

Well, I'm not really going to really pick a side here, I think those kills were a tragedy, but I get the mindset behind it, and agree with the Americans on that. But there is no denying that murders will be made in a war, and either the culprit won't be found or he get's reprimanded for it.

You know what they say: War is hell, it brings the best and worst out of people.

Oh, and theres more Europeans that stereotype American's then those that don't, but I'm guessing it's the other way around too because it's easier then a proper opinion.

Oh, and anyone who mentions the word justified and war together is an idiot in my eyes, there is no such thing as a justified war since there isn't a justifiable reason for it. It's just in human nature, (anyone who think's otherwise needs to get history lessons)

Let's apply internet law, no opinion until you've been there.

Well, considering every single male in Finland gets military training, either basic or very specialised, I think you can give me the benefit of the doubt without me actually scanning and mailing you the paperwork.

Therion wrote:

What in hell do you know about warfare?

Well, I've received 12 months of 24 hours per day 7 days per week military training. In addition to that I'm a university graduate and am quite interested in history. I've never been in a war, but I have a hunch that overall I might know more than the average person in this thread.

Sorry, calling bull.

If you were "quite interested in history" then you'd know this style of warfare is nothing new and has been the bloodiest since the time of the Gallic Wars--with all the blame being laid at the foot of the insurgency, not those occupying.

Kanluwen wrote:

Therion wrote:

What in hell do you know about warfare?

Well, I've received 12 months of 24 hours per day 7 days per week military training. In addition to that I'm a university graduate and am quite interested in history. I've never been in a war, but I have a hunch that overall I might know more than the average person in this thread.

Sorry, calling bull.

If you were "quite interested in history" then you'd know this style of warfare is nothing new and has been the bloodiest since the time of the Gallic Wars--with all the blame being laid at the foot of the insurgency, not those occupying.

There were suicide bombers in the Gallic war?

Soladrin wrote:Well, I'm not really going to really pick a side here, I think those kills were a tragedy, but I get the mindset behind it, and agree with the Americans on that. But there is no denying that murders will be made in a war, and either the culprit won't be found or he get's reprimanded for it.

You know what they say: War is hell, it brings the best and worst out of people.

Oh, and there's more Europeans that stereotype American's then those that don't, but I'm guessing it's the other way around too because it's easier then a proper opinion.

Oh, and anyone who mentions the word justified and war together is an idiot in my eyes, there is no such thing as a justified war since there isn't a justifiable reason for it.

You're confusing "murder" with "collateral damage".

Murder implies that the soldiers purposely intended to kill that specific individual, with an actual motivation to do it.

This was just a case of wrong place, wrong time and the overall screw-up that is not going to be uncommon due to fighting an insurgency.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Soladrin wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

Therion wrote:

What in hell do you know about warfare?

Well, I've received 12 months of 24 hours per day 7 days per week military training. In addition to that I'm a university graduate and am quite interested in history. I've never been in a war, but I have a hunch that overall I might know more than the average person in this thread.

Sorry, calling bull.

If you were "quite interested in history" then you'd know this style of warfare is nothing new and has been the bloodiest since the time of the Gallic Wars--with all the blame being laid at the foot of the insurgency, not those occupying.

There were suicide bombers in the Gallic war?

No, but there were fighters who hid among the populace and brazenly attacked soldiers before hiding away

you'd know this style of warfare is nothing new

Please. Someone talks about possible war crimes or generally homicidal behaviour and your answer is "old"?

Therion wrote:

Let's apply internet law, no opinion until you've been there.

Well, considering every single male in Finland gets military training, either basic or very specialised, I think you can give me the benefit of the doubt without me actually scanning and mailing you the paperwork.

Let me refine the answer: have a tour in Iraq.

Therion wrote:

you'd know this style of warfare is nothing new

Please. Someone talks about possible war crimes or generally homicidal behavior and your answer is "old"?

Sweetheart, you're the one bringing history into this.

Insurgencies and guerilla warfare have been around since the day mankind learned "if I hide in bushes with a bow and arrow--I can cause more panic than standing in the open!"

Kanluwan, I did mean murder, it's no secret that there are psycho's in any army, no matter how tightly drilled. If you can't accept this then I call that ignorant.

I'm not implying this is only in the American army, I really mean every army.

I can imagine it only taking someones buddy to get killed in a war for someone to snap and see all indigenous people as the enemy, or just making him want to exact revenge on anything.

Kanluwen wrote:
Except once again, it wasn't whitewashed and you're seeing 17 minutes out of 42 minutes of guncamera footage from an Apache that was flying cover for a raid in that district.
The raid netted a high ranking insurgent target, and began to come under heavy fire--which led to the Apaches being called in.
The two reporters weren't wearing any identifying press markers, also, which means again--it's their own damned fault.

And once again:

If it's not an "official" ambulance or marked with a red cross and it stops to pull in wounded "hostiles", it's a target.
End of story.

So unless is vehicle is displaying the appropriate identification then its fair game to blow it to bits? Regardless of the fact the people are obviously attempting nothing more sinister than helping the wounded and are clearly posing no threat whatsoever? Given that the pilots could tel the difference between a camera and an RPG I'm not sure what difference a press pass would have made either.

Even if it's not an act of outright murder then it's at the very least an act of criminal negligence.

Soladrin wrote:Oh, and anyone who mentions the word justified and war together is an idiot in my eyes, there is no such thing as a justified war since there isn't a justifiable reason for it.

Enjoy your Nazis.

Enjoy your Nazis.

I see, the Americans entered WWII for humanitarian reasons

Commissar Molotov wrote:*sigh*

Again - it's a tragedy, but not a crime.

Indeed.



Before we start sending out the HEYGUYSWTFAREUDOING111 Pms, can we remind users of the dakka rules of conduct and behaviour, praise those who calmly,simply and correctly hit the alert button and ask users to, you know, maybe at least make some attempt to engage their brain before their fingers when it comes to posting.



happy easter.