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Who takes the NB? The Deceiver is much more common I believe.

Banshees do more wounds on the charge unless I screwed up my math, and have fleet. Of course, if they get caught they are also going to get owned by AP 4 shooting unless the Immortals/Destroyers are occupied.

tedurur wrote:Its not nearly double their costs since you need to consider the cost of a Serpent if you take them on foot.
The Banshees might be somewhat better against Necrons but tailoring your list against a specific opponent will do you no good...
What makes a foot council "good" is the rerollable inv save. You must have them fortuned or they will be majorly overcosted.

If you wanna compare the Nob vs a fortuned Warlock you will actually find that they do pretty much equal damage per pt vs each other.

Warlocks have witchblades, and are more cost effective against AV. For a base cost of 25 points, you get 3 S9* attacks on the charge... which makes them excellent transport hunters. Nobs on the other hand, are 20 points, and start with nothing more than 4 S5 attacks on the charge.

There is no way to beat a squad of FNP Nob bikers effectively, with Warlocks, aside use of heavy flamers. 30 attacks at 2+ is 25 wounds, leading to 6.25 wounds against a 4+ RR, killing nothing at all. Nobs have 2 wounds each, Warlocks have one wound each; that fight is in the favor of Nobs, who hit back with weaponry that will ID Eldar IC's (considering that for 5 points, you get a S7 weapon on the charge...). Nobs gain FNP from a multi-wound, non-IC character... game, set, match.
(No Farseer, No Fortune)

All this said tho, foot council is NOT a good way to spend your points as an Eldar player. (Neither is Banshees)

That is quite an opinion you have there. Do you mean within this context?

Fire dragons will perform the best overall, simply because Necron can escape CC in a bunch of ways. But.... Res. Orbs will make pretty much any unit relatively useless, unless the Necron player manages to roll badly.

People referring to Warlocks as CC monsters, don't appear to have much experience with them... Witchblades are great against MC/AV, but piss-poor against most infantry. Warlocks are tar-pits against most infantry, and they rely on their 4++ RR to win them fights. I.E. they win defensively, and do poorly against anything that can counter their Fortune.

Wrexasaur wrote:

tedurur wrote:Its not nearly double their costs since you need to consider the cost of a Serpent if you take them on foot.
The Banshees might be somewhat better against Necrons but tailoring your list against a specific opponent will do you no good...
What makes a foot council "good" is the rerollable inv save. You must have them fortuned or they will be majorly overcosted.

If you wanna compare the Nob vs a fortuned Warlock you will actually find that they do pretty much equal damage per pt vs each other.

Warlocks have witchblades, and are more cost effective against AV. For a base cost of 25 points, you get 3 S9* attacks on the charge... which makes them excellent transport hunters. Nobs on the other hand, are 20 points, and start with nothing more than 4 S5 attacks on the charge.

There is no way to beat a squad of FNP Nob bikers effectively, with Warlocks, aside use of heavy flamers. 30 attacks at 2+ is 25 wounds, leading to 6.25 wounds against a 4+ RR, killing nothing at all. Nobs have 2 wounds each, Warlocks have one wound each; that fight is in the favor of Nobs, who hit back with weaponry that will ID Eldar IC's (considering that for 5 points, you get a S7 weapon on the charge...). Nobs gain FNP from a multi-wound, non-IC character... game, set, match.
(No Farseer, No Fortune)

All this said tho, foot council is NOT a good way to spend your points as an Eldar player. (Neither is Banshees)

That is quite an opinion you have there. Do you mean within this context?

Fire dragons will perform the best overall, simply because Necron can escape CC in a bunch of ways. But.... Res. Orbs will make pretty much any unit relatively useless, unless the Necron player manages to roll badly.

People referring to Warlocks as CC monsters, don't appear to have much experience with them... Witchblades are great against MC/AV, but piss-poor against most infantry. Warlocks are tar-pits against most infantry, and they rely on their 4++ RR to win them fights. I.E. they win defensively, and do poorly against anything that can counter their Fortune.

As for the comparision between the Nobs and the Warlocks I did the calcs for what he said. i.e not on a bike and without a painboy .
As for the opinion as I said previously in this thread Im not discussing this again. When Eldar get an assault ramp carying transport Banshees will be useable, until then not so much.

tedurur wrote:As for the comparision between the Nobs and the Warlocks I did the calcs for what he said. i.e not on a bike and without a painboy .
As for the opinion as I said previously in this thread Im not discussing this again. When Eldar get an assault ramp carying transport Banshees will be useable, until then not so much.

Fair enough, I don't agree that assault vehicles are necessary to a good Eldar codex, depending on what you specifically mean by that. The ability to exit on the sides, as well as the back, seems like a good compromise to me.

I don't use Banshees because I prefer to use Scorpions and Harlequins. Banshees will do a number to Meq units when you can buff them with Doom, but they don't help against much else. I would absolutely love to see Banshees to get Furious Charge; it would be a worthwhile aspect to use, if that were the case. Fire dragons can multi-task, taking on heavy infantry/bikes, as well as most tanks.

The one redeeming quality of HB's is the Exarch. S5 Ini6 power weapons are AWESOME.