Dark Eldar versus IG (pics)

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**Shep**

sexiest_hero wrote:Hmm Shep this is the one list of yours I don't like I think the wracks can be replaced by warriors, and one unit of trueborn dropped for something else. Then I'm sure you can win with any list you please.

That was Manimal's list. I like the wracks... but I have been really seeing the importance of anti-infantry in my last series of games. I'm so used to getting it for free with IG, and its weakened me as a list builder. Well, I've been running around with a nid list that is very Janthkin/Hulksmash inspired, and it would give this min-max dark eldar list fits.

Either splinter rack 10x warrior mounted raiders, 10x wrack units or maybe even an honest to goodness wych unit (still not sure about this) will be important to DE. This is in addition to venoms.

DE are just fine with anti-transport and anti-tank. I think their biggest concern in the long run might be showing the proper respect to a horde unit or a tough CC unit like Nobs or blood crushers.

**wuestenfux**

Caffran9 wrote:Nice report Shep!

I've been playing some test games at 2k points and I think I'm coming to many of the same conclusions you guys seem to be.

Haemonculi are great. I don't know that I'd take another HQ except maybe the Baron. I like Vect's rules, but he is so expensive. For me, the jury is still out on him. I'm going to give him a try soon though.

I've been really impressed with the Trueborn + Venom package as well. I've been running 2 units of 4 Trueborn with Blasters and Venoms because I really like the Incubi. They just give DE that extra punch in combat and really if they hit the right spot at the right time can break an opposing army's back. They're an expensive unit though, and since they're sometimes tricky to use (They're not a unit you just want to roll up and get stuck in) I've been considering swapping them for another unit of Trueborn.

I've also been very impressed with Reavers. Heat Lances seem great, and once the enemy is forced from their transports their drive-by attacks can come in handy. They're silly fast and come really cheap on points, which also gives them good flexibility. Great unit.

I haven't given the Wracks a try yet, but I definitely see the merit in them. I've been playing Warriors/Blasters/Raiders as my troops so far and the poison weapons have been pretty good. Liquifiers are fantastic though, I will give them a shot in my next game.

I liked the fliers but I just can't see them ever really replacing the incredibly points-efficient Ravagers. The first things I seem to be putting in all of my DE lists are 2 units of trueborn and 3 Ravagers. Moving 12" and firing all 3 Dark Lances is REALLY good, and can be super helpful at nipping into the side armor of things like Chimeras/Battlewagons/Predators.

Well, I have quite similar thoughts about Trueborns and Incubi.

Moreover, Haemonculi seem to be the first choice when it comes to HQ. They are cheap and have pain token that can be utilized, say by Warriors.
I'll give Wracks a try as they seem to be decent in cc and come with a pain token.

On the other hand, I was never impressed by the performance of my Reaver Jetbikers. One casualty and they can be gone. Its a gamble so that I might stay away from them.

Ravagers are still the best HS units despite of some new units, like the Voidraven.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DE are just fine with anti-transport and anti-tank. I think their biggest concern in the long run might be showing the proper respect to a horde unit or a tough CC unit like Nobs or blood crushers.

Liquifiers are decent for horde control.
Death star units are a different story. Lots of dark matter shots can whittle them down.

**Shep**

On the reaver jetbikes. In many armies, the 80ish point unit tends to just be good for what it can do, and if it dies or runs, fine.

autocannon heavy weapons squads, 5 man loota units, 10x termagants, land speeder typhoon....

These aren't things that you'll shed a tear for if they rabbit, or get wiped out by mediocre shooting.

However, if your playstyle is to never take any of these units, as you prefer to take larger units and expect more from them, then I think the reavers could still work at 6 strong. The heat lance would just be there if there were no infantry targets to prioritize. But once you spend that many points on reavers, I think the hellions start to look better. Because the larger reaver unit starts to definitely skew towards anti-infantry, and a hellion unit with a couple of pain tokens would be terrifying.

**Kingsley**

What are your thoughts on the cluster caltrop option?

**Inquisitor_Dunn**

Nice report. I can not wait to get my codex and start running my DE again.

**Gavin Thorne**

Same here. I've been waiting for the models to use them for my Exodite army, but the way the army is built and run is very interesting and seems like a nice alternative to a craftworld list. Similar in that precision and synergy is necessary, but different in execution.

Great batrep, I think you've got me sold!

**wuestenfux**

Inquisitor_Dunn wrote:Nice report. I can not wait to get my codex and start running my DE again.

I have the codex already and took my DE army from the shelf, yesterday.
Its worth a new start...

**CalasTyphon216**

i just played a 1500 game against de with my blood pact today and i noticed something:
while having poisoned 4+ is nice against t4+, it kinda sucks against things that you would normally wound on 3s
also, they are let down by their ig-level armor saves, with even bolters denying their majority of 5+
i guess de are a lot like eldar in their difficulty to play well but even more difficult
de really really do not like eradicator nova cannons (s6 ap4 large blast ignore cover) and also autocannons and heavy flamers/bolters

**wuestenfux**

while having poisoned 4+ is nice against t4+, it kinda sucks against things that you would normally wound on 3s

You can reroll to wound if S of attacker >= T of defender.

i guess de are a lot like eldar in their difficulty to play well but even more difficult
de really really do not like eradicator nova cannons (s6 ap4 large blast ignore cover) and also autocannons and heavy flamers/bolters

True.
From my experience, most players will not be able to master DE.

**penek**

CalasTyphon216 wrote:i just played a 1500 game against de with my blood pact today and i noticed something:
while having poisoned 4+ is nice against t4+, it kinda sucks against things that you would normally wound on 3s

what things you normally wound on 3s ?? 3ed DE codex Splinter Rifles and Pistols had S3... they wounded IG level models on 4+ and marines on 5+.. now you wound anything on 4+ and its not enough for you?

**Kingsley**

I think he meant "in comparison to a bolter." Also, splinter cannons in the old Codex were strength 4.

**BuFFo**

CalasTyphon216 wrote:i just played a 1500 game against de with my blood pact today and i noticed something:
while having poisoned 4+ is nice against t4+, it kinda sucks against things that you would normally wound on 3s

Of which the Dark Eldar has been doing for 12 years, BUT WORSE, since the Splinter Rifle used to be Strength 3 without any poison effects.

So the new Slinter Rifles are far superior than their older version.

Before we hurt guard on 4's, same as now, but before we hurt Marines on 5's and Plague Marines on 6's. Now it is just 4 across the board.

Splinter Weaponry is simply amazing.

also, they are let down by their ig-level armor saves, with even bolters denying their majority of 5+

Not all armies are as forgiving as Marine armies. Some armies are just made for more advanced players to use.

de really really do not like eradicator nova cannons (s6 ap4 large blast ignore cover) and also autocannons and heavy flamers/bolters

And IG really do not like Dark Lances... It goes both ways

**penek**

Fetterkey wrote:I think he meant "in comparison to a bolter." Also, splinter cannons in the old Codex were strength 4.

oh i'm sorry, ofc range 24" 4x shots was better... (that single one that can be looked as "downgrade") and DE have nothing to do with bolter thing..
ps. and in 5ed Splinter Cannons was seen not as often as before, as they was denied from shooting in moving raiders.