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Deathsadvocate wrote:As for the Alpha Legion in Dawn of War it makes sense that the commanders of the Alpha Legion would want to have some of their own members be corrupted to keep up appearances to the rest of the chaos legions. They could have a couple of companies that did turn to chaos do all the work that gets the attention of everyone while the rest of the legion that are uncorrupted and loyal go about their business working against chaos from the inside.

That doesn't make sense, since their goal was to help Horus succeed, not fail.

Omegus wrote:But yes, most prophesies in 40k are the self-fulfilling kind.

Indeed; it's a setting which lends itself well to bitter ironies.

I would love to see the Alpha legion be douible agents and side with the good of humanity through deception. Legion was the first HH book I read and really got me hooked in that story arc.

wizardofgore wrote:I would love to see the Alpha legion be douible agents and side with the good of humanity through deception. Legion was the first HH book I read and really got me hooked in that story arc.

Wishful thinking, however: even presuming the Alpha Legion still, after 10,000 years, intend to betray the Ruinous Powers, exterminating humanity would still be part of their agenda.

In the name of the emperor I support them wiping out humanity. I am a team player.

Simple answer to weather or not the Alphas are double agents against the Ruinous Powers:

Have the Twentieth Legion given the CSMs a heads up that the Cabal exists and is working against Chaos? Learning of the Cabal in some other way than getting the low down from the bad boys in blue may make the CSMs just a wee bit angry at the XXth.

Their alignment with Chaos Undivided makes little sense to me. They are all about the secrets, schemes and plots and little else, they should be dedicated to Tzeentch.

The Alphas are certainly getting a bit scary, them being loyal and all is getting harder to believe even during the Heresy.

The acts of the operative in Liar's Due and the actions in The Face of Treachery leading up to:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/deliverance-lost.html
But not all his remaining warriors are who they appear to be… the mysterious Alpha Legion have infiltrated the survivors and plan to destroy the Raven Guard before they can rebuild and threaten Horus’s plans.

There's helping Horus and then there's helping Horus with gusto.

I hope we don't see truly evil Alpha legion in this book, but ones with regret for what they are doing, otherwise Legion might be a bit of a pointless book in my opinion.

Legion was written from a time way before the Heresy, so maybe their outlook on the whole matter changed up until its outbreak.

Well, during the Heresy, they felt Horus was meant to win, so of course they would have helped him as much as they could.

Pilau Rice wrote:There's helping Horus and then there's helping Horus with gusto.

I hope we don't see truly evil Alpha legion in this book, but ones with regret for what they are doing, otherwise Legion might be a bit of a pointless book in my opinion.

It would change the purpose of the Alpha Legion's story arc, not destroy it. If it gets people away from thinking "Zomg! The Alpha Legion are secretly loyal to humanity/the Emperor!", which is a fairly ridiculous conclusion to draw from the events of Legion in any case, it will not be a change for the worse.

I strongly suspect that the Alpha Legion's narrative will turn out to be one of corruption beginning from noble intentions, and a warning against trusting the xenos and second-guessing the Emperor, which would be no bad thing.

English Assassin wrote:
It would change the purpose of the Alpha Legion's story arc, not destroy it. If it gets people away from thinking "Zomg! The Alpha Legion are secretly loyal to humanity/the Emperor!", which is a fairly ridiculous conclusion to draw from the events of Legion in any case, it will not be a change for the worse.

I strongly suspect that the Alpha Legion's narrative will turn out to be one of corruption beginning from noble intentions, and a warning against trusting the xenos and second-guessing the Emperor, which would be no bad thing.

I am a strong believer that the Alphas are, in current day 40k, no way loyal. There isn't anything to suggest that they are apart from the remarks in Legion. Look at the end of A Thousand Sons and Ahriman, it's the the same situation. It's not a ridiculous conclusion at all, it's a possibility that they took what the Acuity showed them and what the Cabal said as gospel and chose to take that course of action for the benefit of the Imperium. I never said anything about destroying the story arc, just expressed my opinion that if they continue with the loyal to the Emperor story The Alphas actions seem a little extreme to me. Like I said there is helping and then their is helping with gusto. Maybe Alpharius really didn't like Corax for some reason.

Or maybe they just disregard the whole Cabal thing, and have the Alphas join Horus because they hate being the new kids on the block and want to show Guilliman et al that they are as good if not better than the rest of them like the IA article, which is my favorite version of events.

Well, I like them starting out with noble intentions, but by now it seems more likely they're not loyal to anyone, manipulating Chaos and the Imperium to their own goals.

Pilau Rice wrote:I am a strong believer that the Alphas are, in current day 40k, no way loyal. There isn't anything to suggest that they are apart from the remarks in Legion. Look at the end of A Thousand Sons and Ahriman, it's the the same situation. It's not a ridiculous conclusion at all, it's a possibility that they took what the Acuity showed them and what the Cabal said as gospel and chose to take that course of action for the benefit of the Imperium.

But that's the running theme of the Horus Heresy novels. All visions/prophesies/voices in your head are accepted as 100% true (Horus, Magnus, Alpharius, Kurze, Fulgrim, Lorgar, etc.), and all actions taken to avoid those revelations just serve to bring them about.

Omegus wrote:

Pilau Rice wrote:I am a strong believer that the Alphas are, in current day 40k, no way loyal. There isn't anything to suggest that they are apart from the remarks in Legion. Look at the end of A Thousand Sons and Ahriman, it's the the same situation. It's not a ridiculous conclusion at all, it's a possibility that they took what the Acuity showed them and what the Cabal said as gospel and chose to take that course of action for the benefit of the Imperium.

But that's the running theme of the Horus Heresy novels. All visions/prophesies/voices in your head are accepted as 100% true (Horus, Magnus, Alpharius, Kurze, Fulgrim, Lorgar, etc.), and all actions taken to avoid those revelations just serve to bring them about.

Which, for the majority of the time, is a little hard to agree with/swallow.

i don't think any of the Primarchs who have experienced some form of 'experience' have decided to not go along with what they have been told. Fulgrim going along with his 'conscious' check. Horus going along with his 'dream sequence' check. Alpahrius going along with the Cabal check. Lorgar going along with Ingethel check.

Don't they have the capability to think for themselves? Greatest beings ever my arse

Well the Alpha Legion also have to deal with thef act that they basically failed and helped damn the Imeprium and the Emperors vision of the future.

I thinkn they were willing to damn themselves to stop this -but they failed and now have no way back.

I also see nothiong to indicate that the Cabal are not (perhaps unwitting) pawns of Chaos themselves....

Like the Night Lords they may well be kidding themselvs of their past and reasons why they do what they do.

Mr Morden wrote:I also see nothiong to indicate that the Cabal are not (perhaps unwitting) pawns of Chaos themselves....

Well yeah, what realm does the Acuity stare into D'oh!

Pilau Rice wrote:

Omegus wrote:But that's the running theme of the Horus Heresy novels. All visions/prophesies/voices in your head are accepted as 100% true (Horus, Magnus, Alpharius, Kurze, Fulgrim, Lorgar, etc.), and all actions taken to avoid those revelations just serve to bring them about.

Which, for the majority of the time, is a little hard to agree with/swallow.

i don't think any of the Primarchs who have experienced some form of 'experience' have decided to not go along with what they have been told. Fulgrim going along with his 'conscious' check. Horus going along with his 'dream sequence' check. Alpahrius going along with the Cabal check. Lorgar going along with Ingethel check.

Don't they have the capability to think for themselves? Greatest beings ever my arse

What? You mean to say that GW fluff reads more as half-assed dime novels than any serious attempt at producing decent literature?! Say it isn't so!

Omegus wrote:
What? You mean to say that GW fluff reads more as half-assed dime novels than any serious attempt at producing decent literature?! Say it isn't so!

Come on Omegus, play nice. Some of the novels have been at least ok