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As a pure SoB player, I am glad that the Sisters Militant have reverted to their original status as a standalone Ecclesiarchy army.

In the same vein, however, I remain convinced that the Inquisition should have remained playable as an optional add-on for any Imperial force. In an ideal world, I think the SoB would have gotten a proper Codex book, and the White Dwarf we got could instead have contained a few pages with the Inquisitor and his Retinue as rules for a universal Imperial army HQ choice (plus ISTs for Elite slot). Useful content for everyone without actually being necessary, and unlike the Sisters and their (comparatively) large amount of units and fluff, the Inquisition content actually fits on a couple pages. Alas ... it came differently.

Pouncey wrote:Torturing innocents to purge the guilty - and purging plenty of innocents in the process - never sat well with me.

To be fair, that part hasn't changed the slightest. The Ecclesiarchy isn't really that much different, and Ophelia VII is quite famous for its vast underground dungeons.

Ogryn wrote:Actually regarding Witch Hunters, Games Workshop no longer has the Retinue Warband.

They don't have any box set for the SoB either. The entire army is blister only.
You can still get the Retinue miniatures the same way, though. Which is kind of necessary, given that they play a role in the SoB Codex (Hospitaller and Dialogous for the Canoness' Command Squad, Crusader as part of the Battle Conclave).

Lynata wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Torturing innocents to purge the guilty - and purging plenty of innocents in the process - never sat well with me.

To be fair, that part hasn't changed the slightest. The Ecclesiarchy isn't really that much different, and Ophelia VII is quite famous for its vast underground dungeons.

I'll go out on a limb here and guess that they're not "fun" dungeons.

Oh well. Tis what custom fluff ish for. ^_^

It makes me sad. The inquisition was my favorite aspect of the 40k universe. Just the idea of an ordinary guy pointing to the little rosette on his collar and everyone from commissars to chapter masters hop to, it’s great. I also think game wise there is a lot lost by axing the DH/WH books. Imperial forces had a lot more flexibility with them. Without them you see a lot more of the standard cookie cutter lists. It was nice to see and IG list with an Inquisitor and his land raider roll up, or a marine army with some storm troopers guarding objectives. I just think diversity is better for imagination. It just seems that over the past 3 or 4 years GW has been subtly taking a lot of imagination out of the game and in effect telling people how to play. You know what I am talking about, that look given to you by GW staff whenever you don’t like something new or tell someone what it used to be like in the old days. One saving grace is the home game, anyone is welcome to play DH/WH, squats or even Zoats in my basement

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:It makes me sad. The inquisition was my favorite aspect of the 40k universe. Just the idea of an ordinary guy pointing to the little rosette on his collar and everyone from commissars to chapter masters hop to, it’s great. I also think game wise there is a lot lost by axing the DH/WH books. Imperial forces had a lot more flexibility with them. Without them you see a lot more of the standard cookie cutter lists. It was nice to see and IG list with an Inquisitor and his land raider roll up, or a marine army with some storm troopers guarding objectives. I just think diversity is better for imagination. It just seems that over the past 3 or 4 years GW has been subtly taking a lot of imagination out of the game and in effect telling people how to play. You know what I am talking about, that look given to you by GW staff whenever you don’t like something new or tell someone what it used to be like in the old days. One saving grace is the home game, anyone is welcome to play DH/WH, squats or even Zoats in my basement

:: nod nod :: ^_^

Home games are awesome. I once drew up a list culled from three different Codices, to represent a custom-fluff faction that used troops drawn from all three. Admittedly, all three were Imperial factions, so it's not like it would cause too much of an issue anyways, at least once people saw the actual list and noticed I wasn't taking the good parts of all three. The list I wrote up used a pair of Imperial Guard infantry platoons, Battle Sisters Squads, a Space Marine Chapter Master with Honor Guard, and I think I had enough points left for a Space Marine Assault Squad.

I love for-fun games. And it's not like I'll be going to a tournament in the foreseeable future - too much stress and anxiety.

For fun games are the most fun and most creative. It is always great when people keep in ming "The most important rule". It's a shame GW doen't practice what they preach.

I am waiting for the new Sororitas Codex with all its new ecclesiarchy units and plastic models, which will compensate for the lack of some meager Inquisition units already covered in another Codex. And the WD Codex never happened.
BTW all WH units are still sold and legal in the GK Codex.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:For fun games are the most fun and most creative. It is always great when people keep in ming "The most important rule". It's a shame GW doen't practice what they preach.

Mmm, I love that rule. I set it aside once and went with Rules-as-Written for a particular situation, and the RAW combined with the homebrew rules we were using for occupying a building led to a nasty situation that resulted in the deaths of around 20 Space Marines, most of which really shouldn't have died.

Specifically, we were playing an objectives-based game. This Sororitas Chapel building - crudely built from foamcore by myself - counted as having 2 objectives in it, in an idea similar to the Spearhead expansion's, "major objective/minor objectives," thing. As such, a scoring unit that occupied the building would hold two objectives. The rules were hastily hashed-out just before the game started, like most of my homebrew rules. The building would be able to hold any number of units, but only up to 20 models. The building would not be destroyable, but instead could be assaulted into, representing that neither side wanted to destroy it. In such a situation, we'd count all models as being in base contact with all models, for simplicity's sake - the building did not have an interior. And, here's the important part, when charging into the building, one simply had to have their models withing 2" of the building - since I had yet to define any entrances clearly - after charging the building, in order to fight within it.

All in all, it was a pretty silly set of rules that I hadn't thought out well, but that's life for ya. Live and learn. Anyways, this Chapter Master, his Honor Guard, and a Tactical Squad were sitting pretty inside the building. I rushed my Jacobus Battle Conclave and Repentia into it. When checking the rules for charging into cover, the key phrase seemed to be that it applied if one made a difficult terrain test at a certain point. Taking rules-as-written, though it seemed wrong, my troops - none of which had frag grenades - struck at normal initative order. This resulted in the Death-Cult Assassins obliterating the entirety of the Honor Guard before anyone else could act. The Repentia dealt with the Tactical Squad, who foolishly attacked the Battle Conclave despite them having already struck, and killed one Crusader, maybe two, with all their attacks. The Chapter Master killed another Crusader at some point. The Chapter Master failed to escape after losing combat by a lot, and suffered something like 15-17 No Retreat! wounds all by his lonesome. He did not survive despite his good armor save.

But, live and learn. There are a couple of solutions to that situation that'd make more sense - modifying the RAW with house rules to fit the situation would be a good one. Another idea was to place an objective at either end of the building and declare the building impassable except to stuff that could reasonably get up on top of it - Jump Infantry, Skimmers, Jetbikes, etc. - since it has a flat, stable roof. That idea made sense in a way, since if neither side wants to destroy the building, they'd definitely avoid putting troops inside it. They'd likely avoid it altogether, but they want to control the building itself, which means putting troops near it.

Sorry, I like to go off on tangents. ^_^

Well, I know the Sisters aren't exactly al pure an inocent, but they're way better than the Inquisition. Specially the Orders Ospitallier (I think it's spelled that way not too sure aobut that), who are like the Red Cross of the Imperium.

Belexar wrote:Well, I know the Sisters aren't exactly al pure an inocent, but they're way better than the Inquisition. Specially the Orders Ospitallier (I think it's spelled that way not too sure aobut that), who are like the Red Cross of the Imperium.

Yeah, true... Until they meet a bad guy. In the Witch Hunters Codex, I recall Sisters Hospitaller being described as putting aside their compassion when an Inquisitor asks for their aid in torturing victims for information and whatnot. (edit: I think that part was in the Chiurgeon section of the Inquisitorial Henchmen descriptions, but I could be wrong. And I can't check, because all my WH40k stuff is around 1,000 km away at the moment)

Sisters Hospitaller were also described in a different part of that book, as being compassionate to pretty much everyone and helping the sick and wounded, and setting up trauma centers near warzones to help the wounded and everything good that modern doctors do. ^_^

Belexar wrote:Well, I know the Sisters aren't exactly al pure an inocent, but they're way better than the Inquisition. Specially the Orders Ospitallier (I think it's spelled that way not too sure aobut that), who are like the Red Cross of the Imperium.

Thats why we like them, do you think only chaos, necrons, and DE know how to be bad guys. The Inquisition was great for that, you can be the bad guy while still fighting for the good guys. They are also a wonderful excuse for Imperium on Imperium violence.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

Belexar wrote:Well, I know the Sisters aren't exactly al pure an inocent, but they're way better than the Inquisition. Specially the Orders Ospitallier (I think it's spelled that way not too sure aobut that), who are like the Red Cross of the Imperium.

Thats why we like them, do you think only chaos, necrons, and DE know how to be bad guys. The Inquisition was great for that, you can be the bad guy while still fighting for the good guys. They are also a wonderful excuse for Imperium on Imperium violence.

Excellent points. ^_^

Hm... I wonder if I shouldn't put a list of combined Hellfire forces up against some Inquisition forces for one of my for-fun games. Enh, probably wouldn't work in reality, as I don't really have too much in the way of Inquisitorial forces... Though I do have that lovely Witch Hunter Inquisitor mini that I wouldn't mind using... And I've got plenty of Guardsmen...

Enh, probably one of those ideas I think of, adore for a while, but then never touch again. It's not like I haven't had hundreds of those over the past 10 years.

Pouncey wrote:Though I do have that lovely Witch Hunter Inquisitor mini that I wouldn't mind using... And I've got plenty of Guardsmen...

Hey thats all you need. That Inquisitor of yours only has to point to that inquisitorial rosette on his collar and all the forces of the Imperium are at his disposal, be they guard, sisters, marines or even titans. That Gestapo/KGB atmosphere of 40k is really necessary for the whole GRIM DARKNESS thing. That’s the whole idea you are more afraid of your own gov then the enemy troops.

Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

Pouncey wrote:Though I do have that lovely Witch Hunter Inquisitor mini that I wouldn't mind using... And I've got plenty of Guardsmen...

Hey thats all you need. That Inquisitor of yours only has to point to that inquisitorial rosette on his collar and all the forces of the Imperium are at his disposal, be they guard, sisters, marines or even titans. That Gestapo/KGB atmosphere of 40k is really necessary for the whole GRIM DARKNESS thing. That’s the whole idea you are more afraid of your own gov then the enemy troops.

Mmm, true... I'd have to do some painting of course, to show which Imperial minis are on which side, since the Hellfire faction is composed mainly of captured and turned Imperial and Chaos troops - and oddly, even some Orks who showed up acting all amiable and offering a few captured humans - if they surrender, they're not worth killing since they're not fighting back. Better to keep em alive and train em up to fight better in the future - in exchange for some nifty tech lessons. Also a few Eldar who got chased away from battle and captured.

Yeah, the roleplays which advance the Hellfire faction don't entirely follow canon. And they're mostly an excuse to introduce new characters for... errr... What's the word I'm looking for... snuggles?

Well, Witch Hunters are great compared to the Sisters of Battle...