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I like the cloth drapes over the helmet idea especially if they look like cloaks.

As for the two example images, the second one looks to have really delicate parts with the camera and the mouthpiece. I can't imagine those being translated well to a miniature.

I rather liked the troooper and commander in the old thread – sure, the armour could be de-bulked a litte and I wasn't fond of the helmetted head, but they showed definite promise – so I was a little surprised to open this one and find out I hatedloatheddespised the current iteration. I had to go back and check it was almost the same sculpt. For me, I guess losing the coat trim, oversizing the cuffs and adding that retro-futuristic melange of gyrojet, AK47 and M16 was enough to tip it over into the mess of competing styles that others have mentioned.


I would be interested to see what he looks like with the old coat, a cleaner rifle and the Cobra Trooper head with the loose face mask.

mad robot, I like that left-hand helmet as a general trooper helmet, it has the right mixed archaic/modern feel. That right-hand helmet camera would be a nice optional head (preferably on the left-hand helmet?), but seems a bit high-tech for general use.

I like the left hand head because it'll tie in to the armour plates better.

I like the helmet on the left, however i like the ear flaps & strap design on the right better as you can see more of the mask. The mask kind of gets lost with the large ear flaps and loses some of that Cobra look.

I'd be tempted to put tactical googles over the front of the helmet. (not on the face though) That way it adds a nice square shape that distracts from the roundness of the helmet without actually being part of the helmet itself.




While I love the design, I find the Cobra Viper hillarious because who has both a smooth mirrored face mask and tactical googles with a nose bridge?

Construct wrote:...losing the coat trim, oversizing the cuffs and adding that retro-futuristic melange of gyrojet, AK47 and M16 was enough to tip it over into the mess of competing styles that others have mentioned.

Thanks Construct, I will emphasize again, these are WIP...Works In Progress. They aren't finalized yet and that's why I have been posting these updates; to give folks like yourself a chance to comment and give some feedback.


The size of the cuffs and the missing coat trim have already been noted and will be fixed in due time. As for the weapon, a lot of that is personal preference. While I want people to like the weapon options that are included, there is no way to please everyone. I plan on having the arms be split so that the weapon could be switched out, if you decide that's what you want to do.

I'm still working with helmet options, considering the SWAT style helmet and a cover over the existing helmet. I am also considering some goggles as well.

Thanks for your continuing feedback.

Love the second helmet style on the last page!

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL!!!

I've got the latest 3D print in hand, I'll post pictures next week. In the meantime, here's a few more head concepts to mull over... any thoughts?

#6 gives more of a near-future vibe... but the helmet in 4/5/7 looks pretty good.. and #7 is awesome.

I like 'em all - and if you're going to do goggles, I think you need to have variants for some visual variety, some with goggles over the eyes and some with goggles up on the helmet with the straps in various positions. If you were going to do only one variant, i'd go with 7 - if a whole unit is to have the same head, that one makes the most sense, in that it doesn't seem unnatural for all the soldiers to look the same, with the masks and goggles covering their features.

I'd like these even more with some of the previously dicussed helmet ridge and rivet details

I love 5 and 7.

Have a look at these if you want a modern style helmet:

http://7-hobby.us/2011/12/tc-62004/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
4) Just looks like a Stahlhelm. If you want to make more neo-WW2 Germans. Fine
5) Stahlhelm with DAK goggles. As above.
6) I like the modern helmet look, but if so, lose the DAK goggles. They're clearly too 40's.
7) If you go with 4/5, then this is a good variant. Otherwise, nope. (Personally speaking, I think it looks horrible - as a variant then I'd use one or two - if this was the only option, it would stop me buying the kit.)

Another good looking modern helmet:
http://images-kitup.military.com/wp-content/gallery/australian-sas-in-crye-multicam-combat-uniforms/australian-sas-crye4.jpg

If you go with variant helmets/heads, please supply a couple of extras over the number of bodies - say 6 or 8 heads per 4/5 bodies. So people can avoid specific heads entirely or use them for officers/etc.


Please also change the weapon render. Go with something that looks a bit more realistic. There are some amazing looking modern weapons you could base yours off or take inspiration from:

G36C


ACR


MK14 Mod 0 EBR

Definitely have to go with 5. Excellent shape and archaic feel without looking too much like Space Nazis. You could then use 7 as a variant head.

7 for the win. Nicest combo of all.

5 is my favorite. Though the goggles down one is awesome as well.

mad robot wrote:I will emphasize again, these are WIP...Works In Progress. They aren't finalized yet and that's why I have been posting these updates; to give folks like yourself a chance to comment and give some feedback.

You keep pointing that out. The reason so much of our feedback is negative is *because* these are WIP – we're focussing on what we feel needs changing. We wouldn't be posting if we didn't already like them or think they showed promise. So smile!


Helmet 5 is a definite improvement but there's still that contrast between the thin, WWII-esque helmet and the bulky, post-apocalyptic torso armour. If you look at, say, the Jin-Roh or Helghast designs you can see that hemet and armour there share a common bulk and design mix and are the stronger for it.

Construct wrote:You keep pointing that out. The reason so much of our feedback is negative is *because* these are WIP – we're focussing on what we feel needs changing. We wouldn't be posting if we didn't already like them or think they showed promise. So smile!

Point taken, sir.

For what it's worth, seeing many people make similar comments about the same details gets a bit taxing. However, I do appreciate ALL the feedback, positive & negative.

Pictures of the 3D print are coming later today. Stay tuned...

#7 is awesome.

mad robot wrote:
Point taken, sir.

For what it's worth, seeing many people make similar comments about the same details gets a bit taxing. However, I do appreciate ALL the feedback, positive & negative.

Pictures of the 3D print are coming later today. Stay tuned...

Well if one person didn't like something and no one else agreed with them, you wouldn't have any way of knowing if it was just one person's personal taste or if there was a design issue. I could give you all sorts of advice about what I would like, but I don't know how broadly the miniatures would appeal to people if you listened to just one opinion.

I think the miniatures look pretty cool and can't wait to see the new print.

Ok guys, as promised, here's some pictures of the 3D print I received a few days ago. I've taken the liberty of standing it next to some other fairly common figures for the sake of comparison. I think some of the shortcomings are more obvious than others but feel free to offer up whatever feedback you may have.


First up is a shot of the individual pieces...




Next up is a group shot of various figures for comparison...




Finally we have a tighter shot of some standard troopers...






Thanks for checking this out and offering up your ideas and suggestions. A happy and safe new years to all!

Hmm, is this suppose to be true scaled?

Because even then the head looks a bit smaller than it should

Its head is smaller than the other one you have I think!

kenshin620 wrote:Its head is smaller than the other one you have I think!

True, that's one of the more obvious shortcomings...lol.

There are some scaling issues that we'll address. A bigger head and hands, overall the upper body seems a little smaller than the legs, etc. The final figure will also measure just a tiny bit shorter, no taller than the DKoK you see next to him.

Hopefully this will let people see where we're headed. We should have refinements finished in a week or two and then it's off to the printer and then, hopefully, to the caster.

Thanks for your continued feedback

I think you already have figured out the changes you need to make.

The one I would add would be to consider exagerating the depth of the details, especially the cloth folds. Not a lot, but enough that making a mould and casting won't soften them away. Though it could be 100% a camera issue with that grey material causing the details to look more shallow than they are.

You're still having issues with the softening of the details on the coat. The bottom looks like it's starting to curl under, rather than have a crisp bottom.

Your torso and, as mentioned, head are noticeably disproportionate to the arms & legs. They need to be made bigger.

I think your gun looks a bit nonthreatening. I'm thinking futuristic airsoft.

Someone mentioned previously that you looked to have too many folds in the coat fabric. Seeing the "IRL" model, I'm prone to agree.

I still think the chest plates are an AWESOME idea, and I can't wait to see them perfected.

FWIW, I like head #6, sans goggles.

Eric

MagickalMemories wrote:I think your gun looks a bit nonthreatening. I'm thinking futuristic airsoft.

Agreed. It's a bit flimsy looking.

Here's a flavor of the newer gun concept:

I have to say, whatever scaling issues you have, these look a hell of a lot better scaled than Cadians, good job!

Seeing them full sized I don't mind the rivets as it will give something for dip/ink/paints to hook onto or pool around.

If anything, I would say slightly bulk out the gun so it doesn't look so fragile, a little bit closer the FW size but not as large as the GW boxes.

I think overall it's getting really close. The head size is slightly too small, I think the details on the head/face may need to be deepened slightly more to make them pop but i think you are very close. I think the torso size seems off maybe due to the way the hips aren't particuarly visable under the jacker which distorts the appearance. Honestly the torso looks rather long when the piece is shown seperate. I think the lines of the coat may be fooling the eye into thinking it's too small. You should line this model up againt some anatomy drawings for scale. Something is slightly off (not by much though) and I can't immediately spot it.


I've found that when designing stuff for this scale it's better to over-exaggerate everything, in 3D if you try and make the models look correct than all the detail washes out when it's printed in scaled down form. On the screen it looks amazing but once it's shrunk down you lose a lot. Make all the detail depth twice as large as what your guys says they should be.

Zoom out on your screen until you have it the same size as what the mini should be then back away five feet from your computer because that's what the typical viewing distance will be, and it'll give you a better sense of if the detail will show up or not. Squint your eyes a bit, maybe take off any glasses etc. The renders make everything look pretty but it tries to lie to you A lot of getting the print scale just right is a matter of experience from playing around a lot before you nail it just right. I think you are just about there with these guys.


The new gun looks awesome, much like a Aliens movie pulse rifle with a drum magazine. I love it.

Can't wait to get an army of these and paint them up Cobra style! Nice stuff.

I tossed this into photoshop to see what migt be off, hopefully this will make sense. based on your pics I scaled them as closea s I could, not perfect due to the angle of the parts but hopefully enough to work.



The head is actually to proper scale of a bare head. Which is slightly undersized for a mini given that it's wearing a helmet and minis typically need to have heads and hand slightly larger than normal proprtions. I'd say maybe increase the size by about 5-10%

The torso is a bit long and may need to be shortened slightly. I'd also taper the waist area slightly just to give it more definition and the inverted triangle shape that the male form traditionally ascribes to. Right now it's a bit tube shaped. I think you need to lift the entire piece of chest armor so it'd be in with the proper shoulder line, have more stomach area and lift the belt line. Most tactical body armor plates will generally cover the rib cage to absorb impacts and use softer armor across the stomach area for flexibility of movement.

The waist level is set a bit low which makes the toros look even longer, combined with a visable lack of hip & groin definition.

Have the coat split a bit higher, most pea coats and trenchers button down to the waist but not much further as that would restrict leg mobility. A button below the groin would tend to pull the fabric flat across the goin and make it pretty restrictive and uncomfortable. It'd be difficult/impossible to sit or crouch with it buttoned that low. So move the split up to the groin height or hip height which will help with the definition.

The knee height looks to be right, the lower legs seem short due to the coat but look to be proper length. Maybe lift the knee cap ever so slightly as knee armor tends to ride slightly higher than the knee itself.

The arms are way too long, ape arm syndrome I rotated the pieces to show how long they are in compairson and both the upper and lower arm are overly long. At current they'd need to be reduced almost 30% in length

Might be good to add a elbow pad held in place with a band? Most of the other vunerable areas on the model have armor, the elbows would likely be reinforced as well?

Not bashing the model at all, I love the design hopefully this can help you make the tweaks that take it from 90% to perfect

mad robot wrote:Here's a flavor of the newer gun concept:

This is brilliant. And you've managed to find a balance not only between the design influences – I'm seeing a little pulse rifle, a little PPSh – but between scales as well – it's realistically-proportioned but it has the bulk of heroic-scale weapons.

I think everything's been covered already but I wish to add that perhaps the loss of detail in the prints is a blessing in disguise. With the sharp edges in the armour smoothed over everything ties together a lot better and with the rivets needing to be that large to show up the mind glosses over how comparatively crude they are.