6th Edition: Which Eldar Fast Attack Unit would you choose if you could only choose 1?

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**Razgriz22**

I just know that falcons like to stay at 48" range. And vypers needs 36" minimum, 24" for shu cannons. You plan goes down/ becoms static the second the falcon is down. Which if it has eldrad in it, thats a huge target. Once he is down, then vypers have to stay near him for that fortune. Otherwise they will be taking some fire. Maybe I just have it so engrained in my head that they stink to even give them any more chances. I just have never been pleased with tem and have always found my point better spent elsewhere. Thats just me personally.

But it is great to hear people using them succesfully. Maybe there is hope! lol

**Helvost**

I went with the unpopular choice of shining spears. With the new effect from Skilled Rider, increased speed of eldar jetbikes and also having withdraw I think they could be a nasty unit. Unfortunately i still need to playtest it so that may prove wrong. Regardless my 2nd choice would be warp spiders. Withdraw and a jump-shoot-jump with str6 spam is nasty.

**Deadlytoaster**

Call me crazy but i voted for shinning spears and heres why, hear me out. I've been using them in almost all my games they are highly effective when combined with a farseer with doom and fortune on a bike, and autarch with mandiblasters, laser lance, and jetbike (i tend to give him a fusion gun too). Then add those to the 5 man shinning spears with full upgrades minus the shuriken cannon option you have for the exarch. Turn one fortune yourself and doom for the rest of the army if enemy is in range. Turbo boost to set up for turn 2 charge. Dont worry if the enemy assaults you, between being fortuned and having hit and run you can get away then charge back with full attacks and str6. (just avoid units with lots of power weapons first turn). But in most cases they will have a 3+ or 2+ cover save fortuned first turn (5+ jink, 4+ turboboost, 3+ skilled rider, 2+ if night fight). The farseer can challenge power fists if you dont think you can cut them all down, or the exarch can if you just want to kill them all.

What do you guys think? i find them to be the new seer council on bikes since witch blades got nerfed so hard vs vehicles.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MarshallDin wrote:
If you play Vypers while remaining static and at the receiving end of bolter fires, then you are playing it wrong man. Vypers should almost always move up to12" & stay away from mass bolter fires.

Sure, WWs pack more firing rate, but the models are too tall & bulky making them difficult to be properly 'hidden' to benefit from cover svs. With only 6" movement, they are not that maneuverable and fast enemy can catch up to them really quick.

And about Vypers being BS3, so are WWs by the way. This can easily be solved by having Farseers/Eldar within 6" vicinity - either on j-bike or aboard Falcon/Serpent casting Guide (& Fortune).

The problem with W-Spiders, as I've mentioned before, lies with their weapons range - too short. If you want to take 10 W-Spiders, then positioning for all of them to be able to shoot will be quite troublesome, making some models being put too close from the intended target. Some of them might not even be able to shoot at the target.

If you put the W-Spiders just 11"-12" from the target, then any casualty will only be taken from the ones that the spinners reach. But if you want to max-out potential casualties, you have to put your W-Spiders closer, & that will put them at risk.

If your jump-back move is 10"-12", that would be great! Unfortunately, often times they didn't jump-back far enough (7"-8" on average) & ended up either being vector-struck, flamed, shot to pieces, or worse still being assaulted by the very unit they were shooting before.

Against IG, or DE, or Tau, maybe you'll be tempted to charge the survivors from the targeted unit. But against MEQs or Terminators-spam armies, they'll just shrugged off the shots/assault & then give payback for worse. Being T3 at the receiving end of bolt pistol/bolter/stormbolter fires or even normal S4 close combat attacks really hurt, even with 3+ armour.

Yeah, Vypers are as fragile as papers. AV10 is terrible, but at least bolters still need 6s to do anything instead of being wounded on 3+. At least in my experience, they very seldomly being gunned down by bolters due to the fact that the bolter-wielders were shot down before they can even shoot the Vypers with their bolters.

Drop Pod/Deepstriking units are a problem, but those are the challenges in games. If there's no avoiding it, then take the brunt & roll (& re-roll) your jink svs!

Well i dotn know, Warp spiders require finess just like every other Eldar unit, i like to deep strike mine to take out stray tanks, artillery pieces, lone scoring units and lastly most fliers! (average av 11 cannot stand to 22 str 6 shots i find). And if you getb assaulted provided your exarch survives hit and run and give them hell. (also pre measuring in 6th allows you to abuse the 12" move and 12' range of their guns quite effectively.) Still my Shinning Spears are my new heroes as mentioned im my previous post.

**VegaGreywolf**

OK, eldar fast attack units. I am going on record first and foremost and saying I've had absolutely no luck with warp spiders. Love the idea, love the guns, but that 12" range puts them in range of...well, pretty much anything. And even on a full jump backwards, orks or dire avengers or anything left standing can royally rock thier day. I've never had them make thier points back, so for me, they stay off the table till I can figure out a way to compensate for thier range.

I actually use vypers and shining spears alot. Yes, with the spears, they only get two attacks. but with a full squad, plus an exarch with a star lance, that's still 8 str 6 ap3 hits, and 3 str 8 ap3 hits. And against anything NOT in power armor, because of the new power lance rules, they still perice ap4 even in the opponent's assault phase before you jump them the feth out of there. Lots and lots of close combat ap, and with a farseer to back them, you have a cheaper council that can royally end anything not in terminator armor. And thier fast as hell. So all in all, I think a very good unit.

As for vypers, I love the new rules for vehicle squadrons. Basically, till they destroy that first one, all affects hit the first vehicle (or so it seemed to me. correct me if I'm wrong). Squadrons are still very powerful, even with only 2 hull points. they are very mobile, and i usually use them as back up with a falcon. Have the falcon park in front of them, fire it's guns, have them fire though the falcon (or around the side if you can focus fire) and that way, even if the falcon goes down, you can royally spank whatever did the deed afterwards. And, if between the 4 vehicles, you mostly cleared that unit, you have the ablility to fly off and harry something else. They are an annoyance unit, and a unit very good at drawing a flank towards them then getting out of the way for your big stuff to clear that flank out. all in all, as long as you don't leave them by themselves (which, you eldar, why do you do anything alone, seriously?) they are a very powerful piece of our arsenal.

**Razgriz22**

Star lances are not power lances. They are unique power weapons and therefor retain what they are. The are now just S6 on the charge and always ap3.

**BlueDagger**

Razgriz22 wrote:
Star lances are not power lances. They are unique power weapons and therefor retain what they are. The are now just S6 on the charge and always ap3.

Correction, Star lances are not power weapons at all, unless it is the turn they charge. This does not grant them a permanent AP3.

**Razgriz22**

Didnt have my codex in front of me, good catch. Thank you.

**Mahtamori**

Warp Spiders for me. The thing is, they are theoretically put at risk when moving in to fire all guns. I find that only 18+" range guns really kill my spiders since you can use terrain so effectively. In addition they can also hide in close combat in a way that other fast attack can not. Hornets have done right by me. Taking them as Pulsenets will really depend on if your enemy is able to single them out or not, if they don't then they will usually earn back their price. However, I *like* Spiders more. I like how they look, I like their concept and I like to paint them.
Vypers are still overpriced. Compared to other codexes.

Razgriz22 wrote:
Didnt have my codex in front of me, good catch. Thank you.

Oh and the Star Lance has increased strength compared to the Laser Lance you described

**Razgriz22**

Star Lances and laser lances are both unique power weapons. Neither fall under the new "lance" power weapon category.

And yes, i also meant to say laser lance in my other post.

**warpspider89**

Helvost wrote:
I went with the unpopular choice of shining spears. With the new effect from Skilled Rider, increased speed of eldar jetbikes and also having withdraw I think they could be a nasty unit. Unfortunately i still need to playtest it so that may prove wrong. Regardless my 2nd choice would be warp spiders. Withdraw and a jump-shoot-jump with str6 spam is nasty.

I've played around with them too and I agree they can be good, especially if they can all but kill a squad so that in the opponent's assault phase they can weather the storm and safely withdraw for an assault on my turn.

That said, sometimes I feel like they are too few attacks. Maybe squads of 5, rather than 3, are necessary. Thoughts ?

**BlueDagger**

Sadly no matter which way you slice it, Shining spears are terrible. The proper loadout of 4 Spear + Exarch w/ Star lance, Skiller Rider, Withdraw is 237pts... dear god.

For that your get 8 str 6 attacks and 3 str 8 attacks if you get the charge plus 5 Str 3 hammer of wraith attacks. That is an abysmal amount for the amount of points you paying for there.

Survivability wise they have a 4+ jink/3+ while turboed, T4, and 3+ armor. While good, it's not incredible. That is 237pts that could be a lot more powerful elsewhere.

**CrazyBones**

Gotta go Spiders. The flexibility and power are too good to pass up.

Plus, the models are still pretty nice considering they are old sculpts.

**BlueDagger**

Btw I chose Hawks

I can reroll my reserves now and always come in on a 3+. Barrage sniping is fantastic with Hawk bombs. They can land and chuck a haywire grenade. If they live to assault a vehicle they can auto hit it with haywire with intercept.

**danielbonke**

I would always go with Vyper squadrons.
They are by far one of the most expensive units in the codex,i know.
However the amount of customization with weapons loadouts keeps them extremely powerful even with the change of core rules.They are in effect a single wound toughness 10 unit,with a 5+ jink save.
This coupled with fortune and staying at 36" from the enemy means the majority of shots this unit takes with be long range high str weapons, of which you get a re-rollable save and 2 hullpoints.And i for one always seem to make those single roll saves.
This new survivability and their range and speed make them a credit to your mechanized eldar warhost.