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nosferatu1001 wrote:
How about if you joined them simultaneously? There is no requirement for joining at deployment to be sequential, that I can remember.

That way the unit does not have a mark, as no member of it does. So no prohibition exists.

There is nothing in the rules that I have found that prohibit joining at the same time.

 Happyjew wrote:
I have to agree with DR here. A normal member of the unit has a mark, ergo the unit has a mark, therefore a different marked IC cannot join. However, in a friendly game, I'd allow it.

so explain now, how it is that if this is truly the case, where an IC with a mark joining an unmarked unit, grants his unit for all intensive purposes, the mark he had, why anyone would ever bother to buy a squad, per model, a mark of chaos ?.... this itself completely negates having to spent upwards of 50points per unit...

I cant say this sounds right at all... ICs are part of the unit only after having been declared joining them, they do not conflict with their marks because the ICs marks simply dont bestow anything to the squad.... hence why multiple ICs with different marks should be allowed to join a squad of unmarked units..

Because noone is saying that happens. Try reading the post more carefully

The unit has the mark because one model does. That does not mean every model in the unit gets the benefit, because the rules for Marks dont say that is sufficient.

 iainslomoscott wrote:
Surely, from a 'religious' stand point, you follow one god? How could a chaos marine follow Khorne and Tzeench? Surely the gods would become angry at the double betrayal?

Thats not how the Chaos Gods work. Although how it generally works is you pay homage to all 4 or only 1.

And only worshipping one god is generally the only way to gain major blessings. Its difficult to please all 4 at the same time.


Most chaos worshippers are undivided. The Fantesy chaos book said it pretty well. "They offer the death throes of their victims to Slannesh, the contents of their slit gullets to Nurgle, their Skull to Khorne, and their dying ghasp to Tzeentch"

So it is possable. Although you won't recieve as much attention as if you were doting on one particular god. Most undivided worshippers just die a violent death, or end up horribly mutated as Spawn for their trouble.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Because noone is saying that happens. Try reading the post more carefully

The unit has the mark because one model does. That does not mean every model in the unit gets the benefit, because the rules for Marks dont say that is sufficient.

My interpretation on his wording, and interpretation of the rules as presented, is that if you have IC with mark of X and attach him to Squad A, now squad A is marked by X.. units within squad A are now mark X

In which case you are mistaken in what "unit" and "model" means in 40k

A unit is made up of models. Squad is another name for unit. The UNIT containing a model with mark X DOES mean the unit "has" mark X, however when you read the rules for Marks it only benefits models with the mark

Hmm I'd rather not argue what means what red vs red and what not..

But I'll just take word for word from Chaos Cultists entry on page 95

The "unit" may purchase one of the following Marks of Chaos:

-Mark of Khorne 2 pts/model
....
....
...

So, if the unit ends up having the Mark, and the models don't, its contradictory to believe that he models indeed don't have the mark if the unit actually does.. =/

That is not what I am saying at all GoliothOnline. I am saying the IC is the only one that benefits from the mark. The unit still contains a mark because the IC joined the unit and the IC is not a separate unit, so that unit contains a mark.

Answer this question for me please:

If you had an IC attached to a unit, and only the IC had defensive grenades would the attacking unit lose their bonus Attacks from charging?

Your answer will be yes or no, I also would like to know why you answered the way you did.

Relevant rule:
"Models charging units equipped with defensive grenades do not gain bonus Attacks from charging (see page 24)." P. 62

I think RAW it is completely but RAI it is not supposed to happen. They will probably eventually faq it

Goliath - again, you arent getting this unit vs model thing. THe cultist entry is saying the whole unit must buy it, at a cost of X points per model. Look at the definition of "UNIT" in the BRB, you will be enlightened.

One model in the unit having the mark means the unit "has" the mark, in the EXACT same way that one model in a unit having a meltagun means the whole unit "has" a meltagun, but not everyone gets one

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Goliath - again, you arent getting this unit vs model thing. THe cultist entry is saying the whole unit must buy it, at a cost of X points per model. Look at the definition of "UNIT" in the BRB, you will be enlightened.

One model in the unit having the mark means the unit "has" the mark, in the EXACT same way that one model in a unit having a meltagun means the whole unit "has" a meltagun, but not everyone gets one

So.. correct me if im wrong, but in the CSM codex, for the "Unit" to be considered having the "Mark of X" they must ALL have it no?

If you want them to have a Mark, you must purchase it for each model in the unit, then they are Unit of X Mark..

The defensive grenade argument isnt a suitable argument for this topic imo simply because they effect an enemy squad regardless of whom has it.. =/

IMO until they FAQ it, the unit doesn't benefit from an IC's mark joining them, and can't be called a Unit of Mark X.

Nobody is saying that an IC with a mark makes the unit marked. They are saying that once an IC joins a unit and that if another IC with a different mark want to join it would not be able to because the unit contains at least one different mark.

Personally I agree with that from a RAW and RAI statement.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
Nobody is saying that an IC with a mark makes the unit marked. They are saying that once an IC joins a unit and that if another IC with a different mark want to join it would not be able to because the unit contains at least one different mark.

Personally I agree with that from a RAW and RAI statement.

I know what is being thought, but I simply can't agree =/

I'll just stop arguing on these mark vs squad threads until it's all FAQ'd lol

Hopefully within the next month or so they release some, and clear these up XD

You disagree based on a misunderstanding of the concept of a unit.

The rules for purchasing marks for a unit require the whole unit to purchase it. The rules for Marks requires the MODEL to HAVE the mark in order to benefit from it

An IC with Khorne joining an unmarked unit does not give the unit Rage and Counterattack.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Where does it specifically say that defensive grenades "specifically apply to/benefit the entire unit if one member has them. "?
It is not in the defensive grenades rules.

It is in the GK FAQ, p5:
"Q: Does the entire unit need to be equipped with rad, psyk-out and/or
psychotroke grenades for their effects to work or is just one model being
equiped with them enough? (p60)
A: One model in a unit is enough.

This at least applies to GKs, and might be a good precedent for other ICs.