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I play Space Wolves and lately I've honestly been feeling guilty about plonking down my minis because they are undercosted for what they bring to the fight and I don't feel like the army has anything it can't do well.

Starting Black Templars to send the guilt away...

Martel732 wrote:
Well my BA basically just kiss their asses goodbye vs the space puppies.

That's interesting. Right now I would rather play a BA army than SW army.

Given the recent shift in meta away from melta, and the durability of AV 13, I would not mind trying out predator spam/LR with BAs. My biggest concern would be how much it could kill -- but it would be extremely resiliant.

 sfshilo wrote:
Yep just what I thought......
The only luck ive had is fliers. And usually the game will end in a tie or eekd out just barely one way or another.

I use csm, daemons, guard, and sisters.

All three do ok, but even a squad of csm nurgle bikers (7 of them) have issues assaulting a damn grey hunter squad with a termies wolf guard.

The tank plasma idea works great but no player falls for that more then once. Decent sw players tend to drop pod right on those units first and shoot the hell out of them.

My best counter ive used is massed infantry with a ton of missile launchers.

Thats the plan, if my opponent brings a land raider to the table thats why I have my melta squad in a pod

They lack ack ack, missile spam from long fangs is less good now, and the increased number of objective based missions makes combat squads better.

That being said grey hunters still a great troops choice, and sw are still a great all comers army They don't really have a weakness, nor do they really have an overpowered strength that many armies can't deal with. .

 labmouse42 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Well my BA basically just kiss their asses goodbye vs the space puppies.

That's interesting. Right now I would rather play a BA army than SW army.

Given the recent shift in meta away from melta, and the durability of AV 13, I would not mind trying out predator spam/LR with BAs. My biggest concern would be how much it could kill -- but it would be extremely resiliant.

You could try that. I might work better than I'm thinking.

But the bottom line is that without init 5 for the BA, the grey hunter single handedly defeats the assault marine scheme that BA players love so much. It's very challenging to build a competent all comers list from the BA codex now.

You do hit on a very good point; I keep telling BA players that we need to abuse our fast vehicles as much as possible now, since that's practically all we have left in terms of advantages over other codex astartes lists not named Black Templars. They took it up the rear, too.

CSM's Helldrake (Baleflamer) + DP/Lord with Burning Brand of Skalatrax.

Just played against a SW with guard Allieast week. 3 LF's, Grey Hunters, Sterguard in Drop Pod, Manticore, Vendetta, Psykers, etc at 2000 points. My Nob Bikers with Wazz and BikerBoyz tabled him 4 turns. BTW he had close to max Plasma with every unit including Sternguard and IG Troops.

As with any MEQ or TEQ, i rely on high volume of shots and assault. BikerNobz and Bosses have no fear against SW but that Manticore sure made things interesting for 3 turns!

I assume by sternguard you mean wolf guard? Because space wolves don't have sternguard...

Anyways my thoughts on beating space wolves is as follows. Force them to make mistake by baiting. And take away their mobility. Yes long fang spam can be brutal, but if you take away the mobility of the rest of the army, and force them to redeploy the fangs or have no good targets it increases your chances of winning. And if you play C:SM try dropping a full sternguard unit with Lysander onto his 3 long fangs squads and watch them melt away under 14+ wounds on 6-7 people total. and then cry and run back trying to stop the inevitable skull crushing Lysander is gonna bring them.

Imperial Guard.

I love tanks and plasma, therefore all my lists have plenty of both, and marines of all flavour struggle against it.

The one Wolves list that really causes problems for me are drop pod lists; Wolf gun lines are imposing, but can be broken, getting those superior marines right into your own line right off the bat is difficult to counter.

Drop pods....... is the best thing to run and gun away from them? Or to castle up and keep them in front?