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Hammerhand isn't a Blessing. Therefore any restrictions placed upon Blessings don't apply. And it stacks with itself.

Yes. The main rulebook talks about psychic powers stacking.

Dunno. Shrouding doesnt stack with other shroudings for example.

Shrouding grants stealth. Stealth awards +1 cover save if you have it, not +1 for each instance of stealth you have.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Actually, it's not as explicit as it used to be. The GK FAQ used to explicitly say that Hammerhand stacks with itself, but they took that out with the 6th ed update.

Just to pick a nit here, the last 5th ed GK FAQ said nothing about Hammerhand stacking. However, per the last BRB FAQ for 5th ed:

Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast
multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)
A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Hammerhand isn't a Blessing. Therefore any restrictions placed upon Blessings don't apply. And it stacks with itself.

The restrictions on blessings, and maledictions, are also on all powers. if you read the pertanent page that has the restrictions of blessings/maledictions,

up in the top right, under resolve psychic powers, it states that "different powers are cumulative"

please actually read my posts, the BRB does say different powers, right above where it says different maledictions/blessings

posted, yet again, copied word for word pg 68 BRB top right of page under resolve psychic power "unless otherwise stated, the effects of multiple different psychic powers are cumulative."

Good job, you found permission to stack different powers. Now show a rule stating that the same power is not cumulative.

easysauce wrote:im not reading a restriction that is not there,

you are reading a permission that is not there.

No, I am not, given you have failed to answer my question.

I have permission to increase the strength from 4 to 5
I cast again, and I am told to increase the strength by 1. I increase it to 6

I have permission. Find the restriction, or concede

easysauce wrote:permission to stack different powers, is not permission to stack identical powers.

Find where I said that. I have just pointed out to you in my prior post exactly the mistake you are making in your fallacious argument

easysauce wrote:you have to show where the rule book gives permission to stack identical powers

No, actually I have to show permission to use 2 different castings of the same power to increase the strength from 4 to 6. I have done. I keep pointing this out - and you have no argument against it.

AGain - YOU must find a way to restrict it. DO so, or concede. You clearly are still misunderstanding the ruleset

you need to find permission to stack identical powers,



we do what the rules say,

we do not do what the rules do not say.


the RAW say we can stack different powers

the RAW do NOT say we can stack identical powers


so RAW only allows us to stack different powers, there are not unwritten rules that grant permission to do things,

you MUST find a rule saying you can stack identical powers, and the RAW says different powers stack, which is an esxclusive statement, otherwise they would not have put that word different in there. the inclusion of the word different actually matters, and cant just be ignored in order to break the rules

I find it odd you claim to know why GW words things the way they do. I can do that too! Seeing as it was in the previous FAQ as being allowed and they simply removed it rather than changing the answer for the entry, and seeing as how there is nothing in the book saying you can't (the inclusion of the word different is an ambiguous point to stand on) I think they mean to allow it. Every side of this argument is based purely on assumption. Hell the new DA codex is rife with entries not making any sense. In the end the game relies on assumptions to hazy rules.

What do you care anyway? It was common knowledge that they allowed it last edition. They've also made 3 FAQ updates since then and still have not disallowed it. Or is this some "stick it to the GK players cuz I think they are super cheese" arguments?

I play GK.... I wish I could stack HH, but I cant its unfair, and illegal

I have played them for several editions

stacking the same power is against RAW

you only get permission to stack different powers this edition,

why did GW use the word different?

really? because they meant different.

RAW is stack different powers

you can argue that RAI is that you can stack everything, but RAW state you only get to stack different ones. there is no permission given to stack identical ones

Wrong, as has been repeatedly shown to you.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
I have to show permission to use 2 different castings of the same power to increase the strength from 4 to 6. I have done. I keep pointing this out - and you have no argument against it.

AGain - YOU must find a way to restrict it. DO so, or concede. You clearly are still misunderstanding the ruleset

This really says it all. Find the restriction, with page references to the specific rules, or concede.

you need permission to stack the same power


you are choosing to read "different powers are cumulative"
as "all powers are cumulative"

and RAW does not say all powers, it says different powers


you arguement keeps jumping around,

its ok to stack HH because the HH rule says it does (it doesnt)

its ok to stack HH with HH because its not a blessing (this doesnt matter, "different powers" includes all powers, they use the word diffferent for powers, maledicions, and blessings)

its ok to stack HH with hh because despite there being a rule saying different powers are cumulative, and no rule stating that identical powers are not, I am going to use the unwritten rule to justify stacking identical powers.


none of those have proof, the only RAW being quoted here is "different powers are cumulative"

you are only given permission to stack different powers,

you must be given permission to stack identical pwers, or you cannot do so.

you need to find where it gives permission to stack identical powers (different casters is not different powers, again, words do not mean other words just because you want them to)

I can see both sides of the arguement.

40k is a permissive ruleset, therefore you need permision to do anything. The, in the rulebook, is no clear permission fo the same powers to stack.

The FAQ says (taken form Happyjew):
Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast
multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)
A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

This gives permission for the same powers to stack unless there is a restriction (either in the rules of the power or another rule)

The "Different Powers Stack" bit does not restrict this FAQ, as it is a permission to do something, not a restriction to do something.

I would say they can stack, beacause of the FAQ

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I can see both sides of the arguement.

40k is a permissive ruleset, therefore you need permision to do anything. The, in the rulebook, is no clear permission fo the same powers to stack.

The FAQ says (taken form Happyjew):
Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast
multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)
A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

This gives permission for the same powers to stack unless there is a restriction (either in the rules of the power or another rule)

The "Different Powers Stack" bit does not restrict this FAQ, as it is a permission to do something, not a restriction to do something.

I would say they can stack, beacause of the FAQ

The only problem with that FAQ is it's from 5th edition.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I can see both sides of the arguement.

40k is a permissive ruleset, therefore you need permision to do anything. The, in the rulebook, is no clear permission fo the same powers to stack.

The FAQ says (taken form Happyjew):
Q: Do the effects of the same psychic power cast
multiple times on the same unit stack? (p50)
A: Yes, unless specifically stated otherwise.

This gives permission for the same powers to stack unless there is a restriction (either in the rules of the power or another rule)

The "Different Powers Stack" bit does not restrict this FAQ, as it is a permission to do something, not a restriction to do something.

I would say they can stack, beacause of the FAQ

The only problem with that FAQ is it's from 5th edition.

Ah, well that stuffs it.

For now I'd say it can't, as there isn't any clear permission. Of course, that isn't HIWPI, unless I was fscing THAT guy...

exactly, HIWP, go for it, stack all you want,

but RAW, no blessing, malediction, power, stacks wtih itself, because they are only given permission to stack with different powers

you need permission to do something in this game

there does NOT need to be a written restriction for every single action you are not given permission to do, because by definition, you are only allowed to do what the rules permit you to do

Easysauce- thank you for conceding, given you utterly failed to address the argument.

You have permission to increase the strenght by 1. I go from 4 to 5, then to 6. Permission found, rRAW you are still wrong

Yes, there is permission for stat bonuses to stack.
But, said stat bonus is from a psychic power.
two HH have no permission to stack. HH and Titan have permssion to sack.


The stat bonus isn't applied until the psychic power is sucessfully cast. It can't be sucessfully cast if it can't stack with another power already cast.

the interpertation here is that "different" psychic powers means not from the same casting.

The HH cast by the squad is a different one from the one cast by the Librarian.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Yes, there is permission for stat bonuses to stack.
But, said stat bonus is from a psychic power.
two HH have no permission to stack. HH and Titan have permssion to sack.


The stat bonus isn't applied until the psychic power is sucessfully cast. It can't be sucessfully cast if it can't stack with another power already cast.

I have permission, from the psychic power itself. Prove I need more permission than that.

Where does the psychic power say it has permission for it's effect to stack?

By saying "+1S"

It does not say "+1S to unmodified S", so once you apply the second power the Strength is required to increase by 1, with no restrictions based on previous applications.

You dont need a "this can stack" permission, you need to find a reason why the rule cannot be applied twice. Find such a restriction

ok, it's effect can stack.

Now show me where is says the power ITSELF can stack.
not its bonus, the actual power itself.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ok, it's effect can stack.

Now show me where is says the power ITSELF can stack.
not its bonus, the actual power itself.

Well you have permission to cast the power on the same target, there is your permission.

the rule book is permission based, not restriction

the power saying it grants +1str gives you permission to do that, grant +1str

it does not give you permission to stack the same power.

and different casters is not different powers,

it says different powers stack,

Hammer hand is hammer hand no matter who casts it.

RAW again only let you stack different powers, you need permission to stack the same power

it is a permissive rule book, not a restrictive one, that is why you need to prove the permission.

and you cannot argue that different caster = different power, that is completely illogical. How can one caster, casting one power, ever stack with its own casting of the power? you cant even cast the same power twice with the same psyker

casting the SAMe power, with two different psykers does not mean those identical powers stack, sure you can cast them, so what? that isnt what you need permission to do, you need permission to stack the same power, not cast it on a target already under its affect.

S4 +1 =5

S5 +1 = 6

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
ok, it's effect can stack.

Now show me where is says the power ITSELF can stack.
not its bonus, the actual power itself.

Well you have permission to cast the power on the same target, there is your permission.

Now show me where it allows you to apply the effect of HH if another HH has already been cast on the unit.

If there is permission, it would be in the FAQ or C: GK, as I can't see anything in the rule book that gives you permission.

easysauce wrote:
the rule book is permission based, not restriction

Exactly right, but I think you don't quite grasp the nature of a permissive rules set.
You can't do anything without permission.
You also need restrictions to control these permissions. Restrictions must be stronger than permissions for rules to work.

We have permission to apply blessings.
Nothing stops us doing it again. And again.

A restriction really is needed to prevent stacking.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Now show me where it allows you to apply the effect of HH if HH has already been cast on the unit.

If there is permission, it would be in the FAQ or C: GK, as I can't see anything in the rule book that gives you permission.

You realise that is not how a permissive ruleset works right?

We have a blanket permission to cast the power.

We already have permission by virtue of the Psychic power Targeting rules. It says to target a unit in Line of Sight. It gives no other restriction therefore we can cast that power on a unit in Line of Sight.

To disallow casting the power again on the same unit in Line of Sight there needs to be a specific restriction to take away the blanket permission.