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 hyv3mynd wrote:
Close, but scatter lasers have 4 shots each.

The OP list has 6 serpents, all of which should be out of VS range when the drakes arrive. I'd call killing 1.5 heldrakes before they can vector strike a good deal.

Don't forget, its also pretty easy to line up rear shots when you can move 12" and fire.
Didn't he also forget the shuriken cannon?

True but I don't run mine with cannons. Not worth trying to manage 3 different range bands IMO. I keep mine exactly 36" from their target. I don't run a spam list either. The eldar codex is good enough to get by with a couple serpents.

IG can do well against spam list like that. You have to build to it though. Where else can you possibly get 15 heavy weapon teams in one orginizational troop slot. 1 HWT in a PCS, 5 HWT in infantry squad, 9 HWT in three heavy weapon team slots. Not to mention the CCS and another platoon. It is a point sink though. Auto cannon saturation or Las cannon works.

Not to mention the Hydra and LR executioner.

Necrons I guess, their Gauss things? Or other Eldar also with Serpent spam? Tau with high-yield Missile Pods?

How would a Farsight Bomb do versus this kind of list? I imagine the Eldar player would either spread his army out too far making your long range firepower more effective, or just lose to twin linked ignores cover fire that you can plop down without scattering.

What do we think of:

BA Librarian, shield of sanguinus & JP
3 sang priests with JP
60 jumpers

Is that enough to take it down?

Hydra's and winning first turn is the only thing that's worked for me. If I don't get first turn I reserve the hydras so they can at least fire once. I've only got two hydras though and when people are bringing 4 -5 serpents....

Make them use their shield to shoot, then blast them? I don't know how to deal with them TBH I just know I hate them.

I've only faced a good Serpent Spam Army once. I played the team Captain from Quality Control at the ATC (so a top tier player). He was running 5 Serpents (all Dire Avengers), 3 Jetbikes, a Farseer, a Wraith Knight, a Tau Toolbox commander, Missile Sides, a Riptide, and 11 Kroot.

I won, but I had a few lucky breaks go my way. I was playing Chaos Space Marines with Chaos Daemons allies (Sorcerer, DP, 2x10 cultists, 2x Drakes one with Autocannon), Fateweaver, 2x10 Daemonettes, 14 Khorne Hounds, Heavy Support DP, and a Bastion).

My initial plan was to rush them my Hounds, but he made a crafty counter assault and tarpitted the Hounds (and himself, because he kept failing hit and runs). So I spent most of the game hiding FMCs and picking on targets of opportunity. I killed one WS with Puppet Master from another WS, I killed two with combined Vector Strikes, I killed one by shooting it in the rear with a Hades Drake, I killed one by smashing it with a DP, and I immobilized one with Beam of Change)

As some have said, Eldar are great at killing Eldar. Also, drop pods full of meltas and dreadnoughts. Remember the rear armor is 10 on a serpent, and there is no Serpent Shield on the rear of the vehicle. Assault that thing and "pop goes the serpent". The competitive Demon lists would probably hurt Serpent spam as well, such as the dogpile list and a bunch of flying demons that can get around to rear armor easily. On paper, I think Necrons should have a shot, but it seems like people only play Wraiths and Croissants right now, and those aren't great against Serpent spam (wraiths are target priority numero uno, and the flyer can't help until turn 2 or better).

MarkyMark wrote:Guard, I think massed high str weapons are best to glance the WS's to death

Normally, I'd disagree with this line of thinking, as other armies do mid to high strength shooting better than guard nowadays. However, in this particular case, yes, guard are good.

They're good because they have a unit that has TL-S7 that ignores jink saves...

CCS - 4x melta, chimera

Vets - 3x plasma, chimera
Vets - 3x plasma, chimera

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

... and that's your 1250 point list. With this, on turn 1, you put down 11 HP worth of glances, followed by 9 more on turn 2. In two turns, you just took down 6 wave serpents and both warwalkers, most likely. And basically everything ignores jink.

Then, once the skimmers are dead, then you have 22 heavy bolter hits per turn, and 11 snapfired autocannon hits. With good rolling, the eldar player would be tabled turn 3. With worse rolling, you're still likely tabling the eldar player. And you still have 500 points left over to spend on other stuff.

Of course, that's a hard counter, and this list wouldn't exactly be great against anything else save flier spam or dark eldar.

 Ailaros wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:Guard, I think massed high str weapons are best to glance the WS's to death

Normally, I'd disagree with this line of thinking, as other armies do mid to high strength shooting better than guard nowadays. However, in this particular case, yes, guard are good.

They're good because they have a unit that has TL-S7 that ignores jink saves...

CCS - 4x melta, chimera

Vets - 3x plasma, chimera
Vets - 3x plasma, chimera

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile
Hydra - HK missile

... and that's your 1250 point list. With this, on turn 1, you put down 11 HP worth of glances, followed by 9 more on turn 2. In two turns, you just took down 6 wave serpents and both warwalkers, most likely. And basically everything ignores jink.

Then, once the skimmers are dead, then you have 22 heavy bolter hits per turn, and 11 snapfired autocannon hits. With good rolling, the eldar player would be tabled turn 3. With worse rolling, you're still likely tabling the eldar player. And you still have 500 points left over to spend on other stuff.

Of course, that's a hard counter, and this list wouldn't exactly be great against anything else save flier spam or dark eldar.

Here's your "other stuff"
Rune Priest
Rune Priest storm bolter
Whatever

Just to be a jerk. The Hydras are already TL, so take Living Lightning for more S7, and now you can shut down his powers

Do you mean which 'well-rounded' army? Or can anyone suggest a dedicated way of dealing with WS spam?

I can imagine most AT necron lists would do pretty insane. Traveller (for obvious reasons) and Zahndrekh (tankhunter gauss) with some VoD Haywiretek/Lancetek courts (which ever floats ur boat more) and immortals with gauss for vehicle and infantry-armour-4-cleanup and obj capture. Finally some scarabs to keep em busy.

Or just go scarab farm with a vengeance.

Also having solar pulse goes without saying.

When cron know that they can go all-in AT, they can do it pretty insane. It's mostly just that most lists mean they have to think about how to do AI properly.

x3 Lucius-Pattern Drop Pods, with 3 IC drednoughts with meltas then assaults= 3 dead wave serpents turn 1 when they arrive just focus 1 flank to avoid getting shot in the rear. Next turn, when the serpents flee, drop in melta marines behind them, and pop their rides, while the dreds mop up the pitifully weak troop choices that can't hope to hurt them inside.

 iGuy91 wrote:
x3 Lucius-Pattern Drop Pods, with 3 IC drednoughts with meltas then assaults= 3 dead wave serpents turn 1 when they arrive just focus 1 flank to avoid getting shot in the rear. Next turn, when the serpents flee, drop in melta marines behind them, and pop their rides, while the dreds mop up the pitifully weak troop choices that can't hope to hurt them inside.

Won't work. Can't assault out of Lucius DPs upon arrival. You can however, say embarked and then assault out of it the following turn.

 Happyjew wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
x3 Lucius-Pattern Drop Pods, with 3 IC drednoughts with meltas then assaults= 3 dead wave serpents turn 1 when they arrive just focus 1 flank to avoid getting shot in the rear. Next turn, when the serpents flee, drop in melta marines behind them, and pop their rides, while the dreds mop up the pitifully weak troop choices that can't hope to hurt them inside.

Won't work. Can't assault out of Lucius DPs upon arrival. You can however, say embarked and then assault out of it the following turn.

Wait...since when? I thought that was their whole special rule that you could assault when arriving?
They are counted as having assault ramps, and allow drednoughts to assault upon arrival, thats why you pay the points for them
(Page 8)
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/IA2update28AUG.pdf

New Imperial Armour apocalypse has revised rules for the Lucius drop pod

Wel that might explain it, i dont own any of the IA's

 Sarigar wrote:
Surprisingly, Elder is a good counter. WS are pretty good at dropping WS.

Drop Pod SM do well and I expect the new SM codex will make this more efficient at DP assault.

i had my serpent awesomeness list, and deployed them with the front serepnts back armours protected by the front of the serepnt behind it, and the last serpent weith its tail agaisnt the back of the board.

hes drop pod srternies come in... 5 pens became 2 glances


now onto the question....
tau with ignores cover, eldar with opther serpents, mass flying Mcs.

Serpent armies do not like things which are fast, Eldar use their speed and range to keep away things. Something like Ravenwing would cause them problems, they bring plenty of melta and plasma to the party and can assault with krak grenades.

Serpents do not like assaults, just like any other vehicle.

They also do not like armies which have weight of fire power; anything which forces the Serpents to roll for a load of saves will bring the Serpent down.

This maybe of some interest: http://www.imperiusdominatus.com/2013/08/tactica-anti-wave-serpent.html

Serpent armies handle BA easily enough. The Eldar can deliver withering dakka right before assault range. It's really the final volley of rending shurikens that cripple my lists, not the actual wave serpents.

Also dont forget, if they are keeping their serpent shields up they are missing out on over half of their firepower

It's not over half. A scatter laser and a shuriken cannon/starcannon is still a lot of fire power. And six shots minimum that wound meqs on 3+/2+ depending on the loadout.

With CSM I think Heldrakes, Predators and Land Raiders will work more or less while not being useless against other armies. I'm also asking myself if 5 Plague Marines in a Rhino with 2 Plasma guns could help. Having a lot of S7 shots should glance the WS down over the turns while PM take some S6 fire.

One WS has 4 TL shots at BS4, which means 3-4 hits (let's say 4). Then 3 of those will wound. 1 will not be saved and then there's still FNP. So those PM should take quite some shots, even after their can is opened.

 Murenius wrote:
With CSM I think Heldrakes, Predators and Land Raiders will work more or less while not being useless against other armies. I'm also asking myself if 5 Plague Marines in a Rhino with 2 Plasma guns could help. Having a lot of S7 shots should glance the WS down over the turns while PM take some S6 fire.

One WS has 4 TL shots at BS4, which means 3-4 hits (let's say 4). Then 3 of those will wound. 1 will not be saved and then there's still FNP. So those PM should take quite some shots, even after their can is opened.

Predators would be ok, the Land Raider not because it just doesn't work as a whole. Rhinos will get destroyed by Wave Serpents.