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get a spray bottle. Spray him in the face when he's being bad and yell "NO NO NO!"

It worked on my cat. She doesn't even look at the house plants now.

 cvtuttle wrote:

Mageofsymphonia wrote:
I was playing a game the other night against another regular at my LGS and this is a guy who I know very well, but every single game I've played with him, he always tries to cheat by trying to give wargear that units can't take such as heavy rail rifles on a pathfinder or giving a tau suit more weapons than it can take, or giving a dwarf army too many runes. However, he's an idiot who despite cheating, still loses to me and the other regulars every time, but this victory comes very painfully as we call him out on every rule mistake and he tries to deny it. I remember from my last game with him that he played orks and forgot his codex and stated "I know my ork codex, don't worry." Also, when works flyers, he would go past 90 degrees and after the move turn them even further to get a better angle, i've told him he couldn't do that, but gets defensive about it saying "I know how to work a flyer." Me and many other regulars are pretty much fed up with this guy, yet he pretty much keeps our GS afloat single-handedly as he constantly has his mom shell out money to buy new models every day as he owns every single army in WH40k and WHFB. And me and the other regulars worry about new people who join our community because our cheater would pretty much latch onto them and teach them how to play and the last thing we need is to have a player get called out for cheating yet didn't realize he was due to poor learning from someone else. What you do about players such as these.

Everyone has already given some pretty good advice on how to deal with a cheater (direct communication), but I would say that if you FLGS is dependent upon this ONE player to keep themselves afloat - you have a bigger problem than one cheater.

Heh...well said.

The real criminal "cheater" here are his parents - this kid obviously has a lack of accountability in his life, and if he has every single army, clearly his parents have tried to pay their parenting "dues" in buying toys for their kid instead of trying to teach them dignity and the proper way to interact with other people.

My kids....they are gonna get my old 4th edition models, and they are gonna be happy with them.....

 Brother SRM wrote:
You're adults. Talk about it. Tell him to stop and if he keeps it up nobody will want to play with him.

This. Jumping right to public shaming without passing go and collecting 200.00 so to speak is gamer drama.

Pull him aside, explain the situation politely, if he still doesn't get the hint, that's when you refuse games against him. If he gets belligerent or uppity about it at that point, that's when you pull out the "you're a blatant cheater, piss off, i don't want to play against you" public shaming card.

Don't use that as the first bullet in the chamber though, so to speak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I don't get these sorts of threads where grown men don't have the ability to call out other men over a game of plastic soldiers with RIGID rule sets. You even mention this person has his mom buying his models, which means he's probably a kid, so this should be even easier. Where's your spine?

Say: "I'm not playing you because you're a cheater, kid. You make up your own rules and break existing ones. Play fair, and then we'll throw it down on the tabletop." Do it with a straight face, stare him in the eyes and pierce his constitution, and don't break eye contact when you're done speaking. Wait for his reaction, which will likely be some sort of pissant response, in which case you keep a straight face and SOLID eye contact, and when he's done with his tirade, turn your back and continue whatever you were doing. Ignoring a big baby is extremely effective at irritating them, since they get no reaction from you.

edit - By the way, don't worry about him suddenly not buying stuff anymore. He's clearly VERY addicted to the hobby since he owns every army and buys stuff weekly.

This is super aggressive behavior, almost intimidating really, to engage in with a sixteen year old kid.

I'm not sure how old you are, but i'm 35, and no matter how obnoxious a 16 year old pimply faced kid is, i'm not going to give him the chest-puffed out, fist clenched, thousand yard stare down you describe above. This is how people behave when they are about to throw a punch, honestly (i used to work at some bars as a doorman / security in my twenties ... and many pounds / several back injuries ago - three biggest signs someone's about to throw hands - they stare at you and stop blinking, their chin drops, weight shifts to the dominant leg) .

Not sure i recommend going from 0 to 60 over a teenager with poor self esteem who resorts to cheating at toy soldiers to feel good about himself.

There's a subtle difference between being assertive and aggressive / intimidating.

I'm not giving the kid a pass, but like i said, i think there's a step between "no one has done anything, how do we handle this" and "get all up in his face, stare him down, don't blink, STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY SIR!"

 Haight wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
You're adults. Talk about it. Tell him to stop and if he keeps it up nobody will want to play with him.

This. Jumping right to public shaming without passing go and collecting 200.00 so to speak is gamer drama.

Pull him aside, explain the situation politely, if he still doesn't get the hint, that's when you refuse games against him. If he gets belligerent or uppity about it at that point, that's when you pull out the "you're a blatant cheater, piss off, i don't want to play against you" public shaming card.

Don't use that as the first bullet in the chamber though, so to speak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
I don't get these sorts of threads where grown men don't have the ability to call out other men over a game of plastic soldiers with RIGID rule sets. You even mention this person has his mom buying his models, which means he's probably a kid, so this should be even easier. Where's your spine?

Say: "I'm not playing you because you're a cheater, kid. You make up your own rules and break existing ones. Play fair, and then we'll throw it down on the tabletop." Do it with a straight face, stare him in the eyes and pierce his constitution, and don't break eye contact when you're done speaking. Wait for his reaction, which will likely be some sort of pissant response, in which case you keep a straight face and SOLID eye contact, and when he's done with his tirade, turn your back and continue whatever you were doing. Ignoring a big baby is extremely effective at irritating them, since they get no reaction from you.

edit - By the way, don't worry about him suddenly not buying stuff anymore. He's clearly VERY addicted to the hobby since he owns every army and buys stuff weekly.

This is super aggressive behavior, almost intimidating really, to engage in with a sixteen year old kid.

I'm not sure how old you are, but i'm 35, and no matter how obnoxious a 16 year old pimply faced kid is, i'm not going to give him the chest-puffed out, fist clenched, thousand yard stare down you describe above. This is how people behave when they are about to throw a punch, honestly (i used to work at some bars as a doorman / security in my twenties ... and many pounds / several back injuries ago - three biggest signs someone's about to throw hands - they stare at you and stop blinking, their chin drops, weight shifts to the dominant leg) .

Not sure i recommend going from 0 to 60 over a teenager with poor self esteem who resorts to cheating at toy soldiers to feel good about himself.

There's a subtle difference between being assertive and aggressive / intimidating.

I'm not giving the kid a pass, but like i said, i think there's a step between "no one has done anything, how do we handle this" and "get all up in his face, stare him down, don't blink, STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY SIR!"

There's not much of an age gap between me and him as he's 16 and I'm 18. We've never resorted to straight -up yelling at his face, but we have told him in a politely aggressive manner if you understand what I mean.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But it still doesn't work

 Haight wrote:

This is super aggressive behavior, almost intimidating really, to engage in with a sixteen year old kid.

I'm not giving the kid a pass, but like i said, i think there's a step between "no one has done anything, how do we handle this" and "get all up in his face, stare him down, don't blink, STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY SIR!"

For the second time in response to criticism of my solution: THE OP DIDN'T SAY HOW OLD THE PERSON IN QUESTION WAS UNTIL LONG AFTER I POSTED.

Where did I mention anything about fists clenching and weight shifting and that other crap you said? All I said was don't break eye contact. In fact, I specifically said to do nothing but turn your back once the words are exchanged. Way to fabricate details there, bud! Sheesh!

davethepak wrote:
I asked him "hey, I know that maybe from your angle that movement looks fine, but from here it looks a bit sloppy, so could I ask you to take a bit more care in moving, and maybe place the movement template on the table?".
...
With this person not following the rules, its best to bring it up - yeah, its not easy, but we don't have to be jerks about it.
But in life we can't let other walk over us either.

While most of the suggestions are helpful, I believe the best approach is to use positive reinforcement to "fix" this gamer's issues.

Yes, his issues are his own to work out, but the OP came here probably because he has some regard for the consequences of over-reaction ("F***ING CHEATER, GTFO!"). Gaming, especially table top, is a social activity. Social skills need to be observed to be learned. The fact his mother buys him so many models likely means he doesn't have many friends or get much attention from either parent. So he hasn't been able to observe any good social skills.

My suggestion: Invite him to play 2v2 games. A lot.
These games will help him learn to work with a teammate and not feel he is "alone" when ruling questions come up. When these do come up against him, make sure his teammate is the one to correct him. He should receive cool and collected criticism from his teammate without much issue. Don't use language that implies blame. Use language that shows concern for being fair, like:
"Those guys aren't in range to shoot at them. It sucks, but they will have to run or move closer next turn."
"Sergeants don't get access to relics. It would be really cool, but they have to work with normal gear."
The quoted post shows good language while still being a bit pointed.

You don't want to put him on the spot and crucify him every time he makes a mistake (or is cheating) but to gently show him how things are meant to be played.

This last "tactic" can be particularly effective. When a ruling, or opinion, comes up, have the teammate rule in your favor with a nonchalant attitude. Examples:
*You place Large Blast marker and ask if that covers 5 guys* "It looks closer to 6 guys. I will give that to you."
*You roll 7 inches on charge that needed 8 inches* "It looked like 7 inches to me. Your guys make it."
*You forget about FNP on some models that were wiped out just seconds ago* "You can go ahead and roll them. It was just a moment ago."
This may look like "throwing the game" but it needs to be conveyed as "playing for fun." He should see this and realize the game is not a battle with another human, but a way for everyone to have fun. If he gets a bit hot under the collar when these rulings keep favoring the other team, his teammate should say: "It's alright man. We are just being honest and fair. I'm sure we can win without quibbling over small stuff." Not that you should need to, but maybe conveniently forgetting to put a squad on the table to stack the game in his favor could go a long way to showing him you can win while still being fair. Even though you are staging it.

Biggest part: When all is said and done, everyone shakes hands and says "Good game." Everyone. Don't let him walk away (gloating or sulking) without doing this.

That's my two cents. Hope it helps turn this problem player into a positive gamer.

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:

 Haight wrote:

This is super aggressive behavior, almost intimidating really, to engage in with a sixteen year old kid.

I'm not giving the kid a pass, but like i said, i think there's a step between "no one has done anything, how do we handle this" and "get all up in his face, stare him down, don't blink, STRIKE FIRST, STRIKE HARD, NO MERCY SIR!"

For the second time in response to criticism of my solution: THE OP DIDN'T SAY HOW OLD THE PERSON IN QUESTION WAS UNTIL LONG AFTER I POSTED.

Where did I mention anything about fists clenching and weight shifting and that other crap you said? All I said was don't break eye contact. In fact, I specifically said to do nothing but turn your back once the words are exchanged. Way to fabricate details there, bud! Sheesh!

I was engaging in a bit of hyperbole, dude.

Relax. Was the Cobra Kai quote at the end not enough to tell the post was half tongue in cheek ?

Thanks for the tips. Yes, the community doesn't want to isolate him completely but we would like to correct his ways so he can be a fun battle brother amongst all of us.

I think that the army you are currently fielding should dictate the terms for handling the cheater.

For example, I play IG, so I believe that Summary Execution for gross incompetence should prevail as punishment. Point your side arm of choice, (mine is a Plasma Pistol,) and blast him in the face with it.

If I was a Tyranid player, send out the Ripper Swarms to consume and reabsorb him back into the biomass pool.

But seriously, when a cheat is found you have to call him on it right there and right then! To ignore is to condone it! If after showing him the error of his ways he still chooses to behave in said cheating manner, your only option is to stop playing him.

He says " I know how flyers work".

You says "Then why are you not using the rules for them".



P.S. Or it could be his houserules and it your fault for not knowing them .

Or maybe the cheater doesnt know the OPs housrule :O

I deal with a similar issue...with a grown man though. I usually make a joke out of his "mistakes" as he calls em but its the same "mistakes" every game and if you're not watching him hard he will cheat here and there. The last game I played against him kind of took the wind out of my sails as he moved his storm raven and then made a pivot to shoot at a squad of mine. I told him the pivot was made at the start of his next turn so he wouldn't be able to hit my squad. He picked it up and redeployed it with a direct line to the squad he wanted to shoot at. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was deploying his flyer. I told him he screwed up and needed to put it back where it was. His response was "oh yeah. You need me to put it back because I'm about to blow your terminators off the board." I told him, "no you need to put it back because you deployed it wrong, you know it, and are now trying to recover a crappy decision." He responded with "If I put it back then I can't hit anything." "NO SH*T!!!" was how I reacted to that statement. He shrugged it off and kept his second move going.

Following other players' advice and choosing to not play a cheater is all well and fine as long as you have other people to choose from to play. But with my work schedule I rarely get to play and sometimes he is the only player in our group that is available for a game. For someone that knows the rules but refuses to play by them is something of a hard pill to swallow. My solution for him is I pad my numbers a bit and add an extra unit or extra wargear. I still play by the rules after that as I don't want to get drawn into his habits and "mistakes" for when I play others in the group. If talking to him doesn't work, he still chooses to cheat every game, and he's the only one left to choose from to play, I say bump your numbers up and keep his losing streak going. If you lose to a cheater, they'll talk trash and really start to sap the fun out of the game for you.

 RavenGuard55 wrote:
I deal with a similar issue...with a grown man though. I usually make a joke out of his "mistakes" as he calls em but its the same "mistakes" every game and if you're not watching him hard he will cheat here and there. The last game I played against him kind of took the wind out of my sails as he moved his storm raven and then made a pivot to shoot at a squad of mine. I told him the pivot was made at the start of his next turn so he wouldn't be able to hit my squad. He picked it up and redeployed it with a direct line to the squad he wanted to shoot at. I asked him what he was doing and he said he was deploying his flyer. I told him he screwed up and needed to put it back where it was. His response was "oh yeah. You need me to put it back because I'm about to blow your terminators off the board." I told him, "no you need to put it back because you deployed it wrong, you know it, and are now trying to recover a crappy decision." He responded with "If I put it back then I can't hit anything." "NO SH*T!!!" was how I reacted to that statement. He shrugged it off and kept his second move going.

Wait, so in club play, he tried a move and shoot that wasn't legal... and then took back the move back and redid it?!?! and this is a big deal? If this was still during the movement phase, you need to back off. This isn't chess for crying out loud. If it was during the shooting phase, he clearly didn't know better and was doing the dreadnought, pivot to shoot. This isn't cheating, its not knowing the rules. Big difference. Even in a tournament I'd let someone take back a move during the movement phase (how couldn't you)... and unless its the 5th round and its going to decide the game, I'd let him undo a move from the same turn in the shooting phase (at least the first time) if he misunderstood the rules.

2 things here:

Either there's some reason that you see this as a dastardly move that you're not communicating well

Or you really need to cool it and put the Friendly back into your Friendly matches.

 3orangewhips wrote:

 Captain Fantastic wrote:
Cheaters get my blood pumping. I actually beat a guy's face into the dirt for cheating me in MTG. That was during my 'japanese delinquent' stage.

I'd like to hear more about this phenomenon.

I was picking fights with everyone over unimportant things, and hassling kids I thought were pathetic, probably because I knew I was the same as them. I yelled a lot too. It was actually a strange manifestation of teenage extroversion that was inspired by Japanese 'Bancho' culture. I started making decisions decisively and not questioning myself, more than anything. There was a point where I just snapped and realized that I wasn't going to meet anyone's expectations in life, and that my endless contemplation was the cause of my grief, and that was my solution.

I beat that guy into the ground because of that decision making, not because I was trying to be a bully and intimidate him. He genuinely deserved it.

Makumba wrote:

His mother buys his models , he maybe many things but a man is not one of them . children cheat at games , because that is what they do.

Once again I come to a forum and there is a Polish person speaking the wisest of words! Good on you man!

 Lobukia wrote:


Wait, so in club play, he tried a move and shoot that wasn't legal... and then took back the move back and redid it?!?! and this is a big deal? If this was still during the movement phase, you need to back off. This isn't chess for crying out loud. If it was during the shooting phase, he clearly didn't know better and was doing the dreadnought, pivot to shoot. This isn't cheating, its not knowing the rules. Big difference. Even in a tournament I'd let someone take back a move during the movement phase (how couldn't you)... and unless its the 5th round and its going to decide the game, I'd let him undo a move from the same turn in the shooting phase (at least the first time) if he misunderstood the rules.

2 things here:

Either there's some reason that you see this as a dastardly move that you're not communicating well

Or you really need to cool it and put the Friendly back into your Friendly matches.

Sounds like he was wanting to re-deploy during the shooting phase, since he was attempting to shoot.

Although cheating to beat a cheater is pretty pathetic. Man up, have it out that he's a cheat and either hestops or don't play him.