Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yes, the Retribution and the Eclipse both have shields.

However, Star Wars shields are, according to the description of how they work above, only really effective against energy weapons. Any effectiveness against solid weapons such as torpedoes comes from them training off the kinetic energy of the torpedo so it stops dead in space and can't reach the target.

Therefore, something with the mass of a Retribution cruiser is going to plow straight through them because it still has accelleration (unlike a rocket, missile or bullet). That is, if the SW shields haven't overloaded already from absorbing the energy of the Retribution's void shields.

And yes, I say civilised. Everyone was absolutely shocked and horrified in Return of the Jedi when Wedge or whoever it was in the A-wing rammed the Executor's bridge, because it's Star Wars: You just don't do that!

Besides, that's evidence enough that a ramming attack would work. The bridge still had shields when the A-wing rammed and destroyed it. They availed it not a whit.

you do realize that starwars have more than one type of shield on ships right there is ray shield and particle shielding. Particle shields blocks solid objects ray shields block energy weapons. Every ships with a shield generator in star wars has both or almost

 Sasori wrote:
Tomb Ship wins.

agreed

 Grey Templar wrote:
Void Shields appear to be more powerful for several reasons.

1) They work against ALL projectiles. Including Asteroid impacts. As we can see from Empire, Asteroids>Energy shields and Star Destroyers. The only thing they don't work against are slow moving fighter craft(they have to slow down to enter) and torpedoes(which again slow down to penetrate)

2) They deflect the energy instead of absorbing it. This is the general principal to armor in general, deflect instead of absorb.

Star Wars shields are mostly useless against solid projectiles, which comprise a large portion of any 40k ship's fire.



Another advantage 40k has is the distances engagements happen at. Star Wars battles happen at VERY close range, relative to the enormity of space, in both the movies and the fiction. 40k battles are being waged with ships being hundreds of thousands of kilometers apart.

A single damaged A-wing, the size of a small car, smashed the bridge of a SSD and caused it to crash into the Death Star II. Imagine what a solid slug of iron the size of a semi-truck traveling at 100,000 KPM would do? And any 40k ship is going to be firing thousands of these slugs in a single volley.

You fail to mention that the Shields on the SSD were brought down by all the ships of the rebel fleet before the Awing did its kamikaze run.
1. Considering I know your using empire strikes back Star destroyers were constantly being hit by asteroids not just 1 asteriod.
2 There are several types of shielding such as RAy shielding and Particle Shielding. Particle shielding block asteriods and torpedoes as well. I hate how people are basing everything on just the movies.

I never saw it mentioned that the SSD had its shields taken down before the impact.

Also, movies are number 1 canon. Outside Fan-fic is subservient.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I never saw it mentioned that the SSD had its shields taken down before the impact.

Also, movies are number 1 canon. Outside Fan-fic is subservient.

So you never read any of the novels then? Because if you want to go there thats what the majority of where everyone gets there 40k calculations books

The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not

deathgod1990 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not. 40k is just as bad if not worse with that kind of stuff

deathgod1990 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not. 40k is just as bad if not worse with that kind of stuff

Yeah, but orks are like the comic relief race for 40k, much like a brutal, kick ass version of Ewoks...

 sierra 1247 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not. 40k is just as bad if not worse with that kind of stuff

Yeah, but orks are like the comic relief race for 40k, much like a brutal, kick ass version of Ewoks...

Ok how about the fact that its takes so long for the adeptus mechanicus take so long (at least longer than a normal eingeerin group) to build anything because they have to bless it first. (I know that they do it for at least the titans). It takes many years to field even a titan. I mean how do you maintain a military with that especially with how the imperial guard is run?

Agreed there actually, the Imperium of Man is horrendous with paper work and such. But the whole point of the lack f technological knowledge is that humanity is only reclaiming lost tech, not developing new things. These are the dying days of humanity as a species. Plus 40k is sci fantasy, rather than sci fi. As well as the fact that the vast majority of black library authors and codex authors have very little clue about how things work.
For example look at boltguns, in the fluff they are ceaseless weapons, yet they still are depicted with cases coming out of an ejection port which shouldn't be there. Most of the time it seems like they add in words that seem relevant and cool without a single clue what it actually means.

Going slightly off topic here, so anyway the years it takes to field huge armies may be many, but when they get there, that's what makes the difference. Now correct me if I'm wrong here but a fleet of star destroyers couldn't destroy a planet, the death star is capable of such a feat. But there were only 2. Not sure if there are other planet killing ships in the star wars universe. The Retribution and Apocalypse class battleships carry extremely powerful lance batteries in the broadside as well as a dorsal mounted nova cannon. These vessels are also capable of carrying cyclonic torpedoes. Giving them a planet killing capacity.

They haven't been caseless in the fluff since 2nd edition. Seriously, people need to stop bringing that up. Its been retconned.

Actually void shields don't work against slow moving things like bomber attacks and torpedoes either, from actual BFG rules.

One other point for the Apacalypse class: it has the Nova Cannon, which fires shells that cause effects tens of thousands of miles wide. I'd put that right up there with the superlaser being discussed.

That's because they are programmed to slow down to enter the void shields. If they moved at high speeds they would impact.

Yeah, but orks are like the comic relief race for 40k, much like a brutal, kick ass version of Ewoks...

Comparing the greatness of orks to...Ewoks makes baby Darth cry.

deathgod1990 wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not. 40k is just as bad if not worse with that kind of stuff

Yeah, but orks are like the comic relief race for 40k, much like a brutal, kick ass version of Ewoks...

Ok how about the fact that its takes so long for the adeptus mechanicus take so long (at least longer than a normal eingeerin group) to build anything because they have to bless it first. (I know that they do it for at least the titans). It takes many years to field even a titan. I mean how do you maintain a military with that especially with how the imperial guard is run?

Because you don't have just one factory making stuff. You have thousands of planets that are entirely devoted to manufacturing the machines of war.

I guarantee they aren't taking any more time than is necessary to make LRBTs and Lasguns.

The sheer number of soldiers the Imperium could recruit if they needed is truly staggering, even if they maintained the ratio of soldiers most modern countries have here on Earth today.

Assume 1 million planets, with an average population equal to Earth today(balancing out between Hive planets and worlds that have very few people) with a growth rate equal to the current US population growth(.75%).

7 billion X 1 million X .075 = 525 Trillion

That's how many soldiers the Imperium could recruit per year with a paltry growth rate of 3/4 of a percent. This already takes into account other forms of death that would reduce population that aren't warfare related.

 Grey Templar wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

 sierra 1247 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

deathgod1990 wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The novels had Bossk take down a star destroyer single-handedly. If an overgrown lizard with an outdated blaster and a stick can do it, then I'm pretty sure the Retribution can.

lol and then you have orks who apparently if they paint a rocket red it will make a bigger explosion or if you paint a vehicle yellow it will go faster. Yeah 40k makes a ton of sense not. 40k is just as bad if not worse with that kind of stuff

Yeah, but orks are like the comic relief race for 40k, much like a brutal, kick ass version of Ewoks...

Ok how about the fact that its takes so long for the adeptus mechanicus take so long (at least longer than a normal eingeerin group) to build anything because they have to bless it first. (I know that they do it for at least the titans). It takes many years to field even a titan. I mean how do you maintain a military with that especially with how the imperial guard is run?

Because you don't have just one factory making stuff. You have thousands of planets that are entirely devoted to manufacturing the machines of war.

I guarantee they aren't taking any more time than is necessary to make LRBTs and Lasguns.

The sheer number of soldiers the Imperium could recruit if they needed is truly staggering, even if they maintained the ratio of soldiers most modern countries have here on Earth today.

Assume 1 million planets, with an average population equal to Earth today(balancing out between Hive planets and worlds that have very few people) with a growth rate equal to the current US population growth(.75%).

7 billion X 1 million X .075 = 525 Trillion

That's how many soldiers the Imperium could recruit per year with a paltry growth rate of 3/4 of a percent. This already takes into account other forms of death that would reduce population that aren't warfare related.

Technically the imperium army is only made of billions of soldiers not trillions. Second lasguns are easy to make to the point where most planets make them because they are simple to aquire and maintain(same reasoning behind flak jackets). But when your talking about larger war machines such as tanks, artillery and super heavy siege engines for some reason it takes them a ridicilous amount of time. For gods sake apparently wasting 100 men is fine but waste a LRBT and thats a punishable crime.I mean could you imagine if they didn't have essentially "bless" a titan how many they could manufacture. Hell some designs (such as the plasma tank) can't even be build easily anymore because only a few places know how to build them. Which means that not all forge worlds can build the same war engines as another forge world. This is incredibly inefficient.