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akai wrote:

 Bottle wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

akai wrote:
Does Warhammer Fantasy Battle actually go into depth on economy. trade, and what else not-related to those participating in the war? I can see the RPG supplements or novels going into those aspects, but that type of information seems rather slim in the army books and supplements directly related to the tabletop war game.

It never went massively in depth in the army books - but it certainly painted a vivid picture of a world beyond the battles. Here is an opening paragraph from the 8th edition Empire Army book:

"The Empire stretches from the icy Sea of Claws in the north to the soaring Black Mountains in the south. It is a land covered by dense forests and surrounded by mountain ranges, all infested by murderous brigands, foul mutants and ravenous monsters. Isolated against this treacherous backdrop are prosperous cities, where skilled craftsmen and affluent merchants trade their wares, and where brave soldiers and noble statesmen work to safeguard the Empire's future. Beneath this veneer of sophistication, however, the Empire is a brooding land full of ignorance and superstition, where fearful peasants clutch talismans to ward off evil sorceries and appease the gods of old. In stark contrast to the wealthy districts are slums, rife with thieves, vagabonds and heretical cults that prey on their fellow man. All aspects of human endeavor can be found within the Empire, and for every noble hero that walks the streets, there is a murderous cutthroat lurking not far away."

That's just one paragraph - but I'm pretty sure it paints a world more alive than the entire Mortal Realms as of yet. Contrast that with Azyrheim and the Celestial Realm. What do we really know of the people that live there? Are their nobles? Slums? Craftsmen? Peasants? Trade? Brigands? Wares? Superstitions? Wealth or the lack of? - I don't think we want much from the AoS fluff, just a little to set our imaginations on fire like the above paragraph does - heck, reading it gives me countless ideas for scenarios, modelling projects and stories - it also makes me pine for the Old World a little, if I am honest.

The quick and simple reply to address your questions - it has a little bit of everything you wrote.

I will quote two short passages -
Azyrheim, Last of the Free Cities "...it is the last great bastion of Order, a walled city, renowned not just for its size and splendour, but also for its citizens. There, communities of mankind, aelf, duardin, and many others dwell. Many came as refugees, fleeing their own embattled realms before Sigmar commanded the Gates of Azyr to be shut. Others trace their line of descent from times more ancient still, bitter remnants of the world that was displaced out of home and time. Although Azyrheim's citizens come from different nations, they are united by a common hatred of Chaos, and by dreams of one day reclaiming their lost lands."

The Defiant Few ..."the mortal people were given free rein to form nations within star-spanning Azyr, and many clung to lost cultures and traditions. Those who had long worshipped Sigmar gathered together into religious war-tribes, wishing to do violence in his name. Dour duardin laboured to construct grand fortresses alongside exiled aelf artisans and human masons, all animosities put aside in the name of survival-that, and the everlasting defiance of the Chaos Gods."

For me, there is enough fluff presented to get the general/idea and direction of the story/setting. It was enough information that I decided that I don't care much for the Stormcast Eternals theme revolving bitterness and revenge. A matter of taste and not necessarily due to a lack of fluff, imo. I can understand people wanting to be immersed with a game's setting and story. For me though, if I want to be immersed into a fantasy setting, novels not tied to selling a game does that for me. Warhammer Fantasy Battle and Age of Sigmar games, was first and foremost, a way that allowed me to play generic fantasy war games in my own homebrew setting--mix and matching different fantasy settings.

Thanks for the response but the paragraphs you provided just highlight what I am talking about rather than answering the problems raised with AoS fluff. Let's compare the two texts:

Geography & Climate
The Empire - we learn that the Empire has a sea on its border, mountain ranges surround it, and it is made up of isolated cities surround by dense forest.
Azyr- well they say Azyrheim is the last free city - but then say there are multiple nations across "star-spanning" Azyr. We have no idea of the climate or terrain etc and it seems confusing that with nations to be found across multiple planets there is only one city between them?

Sociology & Culture
The Empire - we know there are poor and rich. There is trade. There are nobles. There are killers and outlaws. We know people on the whole are suspicious and ignorant.
Azyr - We know there are multiple races (humans Aelfs and Duardin) and well, there are 2 jobs at least: Aelf Artisans and Human Masons. But with no talk of trade or anything such we don't actually know if this is a society based on money or some communist utopia. These jobs could be racial specific for all we know. They build fortresses but for what reason? Do they have enemies within Azyr? They hold onto past cultures - but presuming you had no experience with AoS - you are not told what those might be. All we know is they put any difference they might have aside with their shared hate of Chaos...

Religion
The Empire - people worship (or are afraid of) Old Gods, they have talismans to ward of evil sorceries they believe in.
Azyr - nothing mentioned

It might be too harsh to say AoS fluff is vague and bland. But it is certainly fair to say it is either vague or bland. Vague because the nuances of culture and the background aren't explored or even hinted at like they were in WHFB, or bland because there are no nuances.

hobojebus wrote:
It's six months in we should have a much better idea of what the make up of the new universe is.

Part of AoS failing is no one knowing how their armies will turn out.

Your not going to spend money on stuff that no longer exists in the new game.

GW continuing with one of there major issues from fantasy(40k), of players sitting around and waiting for important info.
Who would think it

I could imagine a major release issue was that so much focus was on the downcast And a bit more khorne, lol.
I can't remember a time we didn't have players sitting around on the sidelines waiting for info, often leaving before any real info or update comes.

This extreme focus GW has within there settings, why the backbone of the settings are left to stagnate is worrying from within the hobby for me.
If you don't like Sigmar marines, the setting beats them over your head anyway.
And waiting for something that could be years away doesn't do much for the game now, and seems like another misstep.

With the books being obscene expensive here, no one is even willing to look into the story and universe in greater detail where I am.
GW won't learn !

 Bottle wrote:

Thanks for the response but the paragraphs you provided just highlight what I am talking about rather than answering the problems raised with AoS fluff. Let's compare the two texts:

Geography & Climate
The Empire - we learn that the Empire has a sea on its border, mountain ranges surround it, and it is made up of isolated cities surround by dense forest.
Azyr- well they say Azyrheim is the last free city - but then say there are multiple nations across "star-spanning" Azyr. We have no idea of the climate or terrain etc and it seems confusing that with nations to be found across multiple planets there is only one city between them?

Sociology & Culture
The Empire - we know there are poor and rich. There is trade. There are nobles. There are killers and outlaws. We know people on the whole are suspicious and ignorant.
Azyr - We know there are multiple races (humans Aelfs and Duardin) and well, there are 2 jobs at least: Aelf Artisans and Human Masons. But with no talk of trade or anything such we don't actually know if this is a society based on money or some communist utopia. These jobs could be racial specific for all we know. They build fortresses but for what reason? Do they have enemies within Azyr? They hold onto past cultures - but presuming you had no experience with AoS - you are not told what those might be. All we know is they put any difference they might have aside with their shared hate of Chaos...

Religion
The Empire - people worship (or are afraid of) Old Gods, they have talismans to ward of evil sorceries they believe in.
Azyr - nothing mentioned

It might be too harsh to say AoS fluff is vague and bland. But it is certainly fair to say it is either vague or bland. Vague because the nuances of culture and the background aren't explored or even hinted at like they were in WHFB, or bland because there are no nuances.

I agree that there are aspects of AoS fluff that is vague and bland. But it appears that both of us have read the passages somewhat differently. Whether you like one versus the other, I still can easily infer about the AoS Azyrheim background from my quoted passages and also about the Empire from your quoted passage.

- Geography and Climate - Your passage on Empire mentions nothing about climate. I assume since you mentioned it that you infer from the passage what the climate would be like? Likewise, I can infer from the passages of AoS what the climate is like. Having read through the two hardbacks, each place where the battles are being fought, a detailed illustration or map is provided. You can infer very easily the terrain and climate from that, imo. All of these illustrations make me think that these realms resemble more like the Realm of Chaos rather than the Old World.

- Sociology and Culture - I read from the passages that Azyrheim is a mishmash of a group of people that also includes refugees within a major city. I'm not sure what else you need to spark your imagination. Just like any major cities from many any time periods would require a variety of careers (merchants, laborers, police force, etc). Is it that hard to imagine that or do you need it to be spelled out explicitly? The passage that you quoted about the Empire does not do that much either. Empire passage: their are enemies within. The Azyrheim passage, mishmash group united by hatred for Chaos.

Religion - you said nothing mentioned in Azyr...does this not count from what I wrote earlier? "Those who had long worshipped Sigmar gathered together into religious war-tribes"

Does the AoS books provide an encyclopedia of everything about the 8-9 realms and denizens? Nope. Is there enough information that people can infer or get the generally feeling about their setting? For me, yes. For others, apparently not.

Yeah, probably best to agree to disagree. I can get my imagination ticking for Age of Sigmar. In fact I delved into Azyrheim for my army project 'Siegfried's Desperados'. I would say the setting is incomplete however because even some of the most basic questions have gone unanswered.

For example, my army are a band of smugglers and sell-swords, I.e. they work for money. But as far as I am aware we don't even know if Azyrheim is a monetary based society or not - maybe everything is rationed out, or maybe it's a utopia that can provide everything a mortal desires. Who knows?

If you look a few posts back, I acknowledge the setting is getting better as it develops and this is something I am very enthusiastic about. Let us hope all my gripes will eventually be resolved.

How do people even eat that's what confuses me where is the infrastructure needed to support civilization.

hobojebus wrote:
How do people even eat that's what confuses me where is the infrastructure needed to support civilization.

Depends on which people you mean, Stormcast don't eat and Bloodbound and Rotbringers are cannibals. Normal people live in cities that presumably have the normal infrastructure associated with it, although we haven't seen an intact city yet afaik.

I think the decision to leave everything in the game from Warhammer has led to a lot of confusion. I am fortunate to be a part of a large group of players that enjoy playing AoS and a lot of our discussions during the games revolve around 'well how does my Empire/Wood Elves/Dark Elves etc fit in with this universe?' The best answer I found is that they do not fit in at all and will eventually all be phased out of the game. It was nice for GW to allow players to use their old models in the new game system, but it's pretty obvious that the vast majority of them don't really 'belong' aesthetically in AoS.

Bottle: yeah, agree to disagree I think (I don't think we are disagreeing that much, maybe writing around each other maybe?). It just seems weird to me that you have issues that Azyrheim's monetary system is not explicitly stated in the official fluff...but have no trouble assuming the Empire's monetary system? It's been a while, but I'm quite sure the core Fantasy Battle book and Army books don't go into that type of detail either. Maybe since the Empire have a remarkable resemblance to an historical nation it is easier to assume/imagine the type of economy?

I have not read through the Age of Sigmar fluff since the Khorne Bloodbound Battletome, so good to hear that GW's material is piquing more interest (a tad bit expensive for me to be an instant purchase). In my homebrew games, the denizens have no idea what is going on in the official fluff and does not know there are 8-9 realms.

The old world had several rpg sources, video games and novels that really fleshed it out, their are ccg's and such as well. It was a very in depth setting that was tied tightly to its mini games. AoS has novels sorta, some sourcebooks and not alot else going for it. it is a very "alien" setting for fantasy, it should have been a complete new setting, new all around, as it is, it is pretty nonsensical. the style of fantasy feels like they went from tolkein to eberron with nothing in between.

hobojebus wrote:
It's six months in we should have a much better idea of what the make up of the new universe is.

Part of AoS failing is no one knowing how their armies will turn out.

Your not going to spend money on stuff that no longer exists in the new game.

That is why I held off my Dark Elves when I saw what Malerion looked like. Those are models I want to have.

 Mymearan wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
How do people even eat that's what confuses me where is the infrastructure needed to support civilization.

Depends on which people you mean, Stormcast don't eat and Bloodbound and Rotbringers are cannibals. Normal people live in cities that presumably have the normal infrastructure associated with it, although we haven't seen an intact city yet afaik.

Cannibalism is not at all sustainable, what happens when you eat all your enemies? With nothing else to eat your culture is going to die off in a couple of generations. Your population will drop rapidly and you will have virtually no capacity to replace the members lost.

As for the normal people that live in normal cities with normal infrastructure... normal infrastructure requires a whole countryside worth of farmland to support those cities. Does that exist? I thought that it was literally a case of the barbarians being at the gates and only people behind the walls were safe.

Not to mention kuru disease which starts with shakes and ends in death as a result of cannibalism you can't live off humans alone.

It takes a significant amount of farmland to feed a city more than you can reasonably build walls around.

And I thought sigmarines were still people I assumed they'd need some sustenance.

From whats been said above and what little I have gleaned elsewhere I get the following picture.

- Pretty much everywhere has been overrun by chaos and is being or already has been eaten by cannibals.
- Anyone that hasn't been eaten is holed up in Sigmarville
- The exdwarfs have holded up somewhere else with some odds and sods of elves and humans and are either carrying on as they did before (diggi diggi hole), or are now sell swords (axes?) for hire to anyone with cash.
- Nagash has got his own pad where everyone who dies now ends up?
- elves (all the flavours together) are somewhere doing something but not clear what.
- slann et al are now good demons to be summoned to fight or living in the fantasy equivalent of space stations between the realms?


I also can see that all the styling's of the old world are now being phased out to have a new start, fyre slayers being the new style dwarfs and take it or leave it (now buy the fyre slayers because all the old dwarfs have been eaten or died), I assume new all in one elves with new style will follow. My point being that eventually anything that remains of the old cultures are just going to fade away as the new comes in.

Am I more of less there?

Somewhat. There's some generalizations you're making that may not hold true, as we're still learning things.

There's some indications that some of the realms still have societies not yet entirely overrun. The survivors in Gates of Azyr are a lot farther down on the "barely getting by scale" than some. But there are still a lot of survivors not hiding out in "Sigmarville".

There's a thread of continuity in the races we've seen move forward- the Slann supporting the Seraphon (which we're told is what they always called themselves in their own tongue) are the same Slann from the Old World. The Fyreslayers venerate Grimnir who retains the same characteristics he did in the old world, and oaths, family, gold remain important. There will be other Dwarfs- mention is made of the steam-head guardian, but we've only seen their abandoned cities in Chamon to date.

Khorne Bloodbound faction also maintained slave camps which i assume does everything that is not very "Khorne-like."

Comparing the Grand Alliance of Chaos book to the Warscroll Compendiums, I do think that majority of the Fantasy models will be re-used/re-packaged/re-named for Age of Sigmar. I can see a Grand Alliance Order where we will see the Empire and Bretonnia re-packaged and branded as generic free people divided into Nobility, Knightly Orders, State Regiment, and Peasantry to be used as you wish in the game.

Red_Zeke beat me to it but I'll just throw this out there

I don't know about any of you all but a barrier I'm running into is that this is a brand new world (that does get confusing at times w/some WFB themes) and I've not really ever been in this spot. WFB had 30 Years of development so in *cough cough*1994 a young me joined a game with a universe already existing. Every game I've taken up has already had a universe, WMH, Mantic, even KS games like Robotech already has fluff, of course (though I've just written that off as a loss of $ investment--but let's not go down that road here).

The point is I don't really know what to expect and at what pace. I agree there should be much more developed fluff as this game progresses but as to what scale and rate...the company only has so much staff, I suppose. Hell, if this were before the weekly release schedule I can't even imagine how this would have rolled out. So it would be great to know more, and I'm sure we will, I just honestly don't know what's reasonable and how this process should look. For now, the AoS media I subscribe to has given the good advice that the BL books are essential in fleshing out the world(s) though I've barely touched those yet. I was pleased to see in the Fyreslayers book just a few chapter in and they mention societal structure, different roles, veneration of ancestors and funeral tradition. It seems some of the info is in there.

It's not held back because there isn't enough staff they freelance their writing out its held back so no one else can get the jump on making models.

Which is stupid because a dwarfs a dwarf no matter what special snow flake name you give it, so they can't stop third party models anyway.

hobojebus wrote:
It's not held back because there isn't enough staff they freelance their writing out its held back so no one else can get the jump on making models.

Which is stupid because a dwarfs a dwarf no matter what special snow flake name you give it, so they can't stop third party models anyway.

I'm not sure that is what's going on in the heads of GW & BL during this process but I'm no mind reader just agree to disagree there. I do agree third party models won't be stopped though, since if someone wants a cheaper or more ascthetically pleasing model they will just buy what they want and use that in games unless said players are playing at WHW.

akai wrote:
Bottle: yeah, agree to disagree I think (I don't think we are disagreeing that much, maybe writing around each other maybe?). It just seems weird to me that you have issues that Azyrheim's monetary system is not explicitly stated in the official fluff...but have no trouble assuming the Empire's monetary system? It's been a while, but I'm quite sure the core Fantasy Battle book and Army books don't go into that type of detail either. Maybe since the Empire have a remarkable resemblance to an historical nation it is easier to assume/imagine the type of economy?

Yeah, I don't think we are too far off one another's opinion on the fluff, just differing over how much detail is needed in a wargame setting (and with you running homebrew settings, that's no surprise :-)

I'll be able to go through the 8th Empire Army book in more detail to bring up examples over the weekend. No, there is no section specifically about the economy of the Empire but it is hinted at throughout, whereas it is not hinted at at all in the new Age of Sigmar fluff. I work with what I've got and fill in the blanks, but it would be nice to know if my army fits with the Age of a Sigmar background as GW envision it or not. :-)

maybe to save AoS, they should fire Nick Kyme and forbid him from ever writing again....ever...along with Gav Thorpe and Jervis Johnson (who should be deported to Bhutan where he will never ever helm a game company again, ever) scrap their story, chain Aaron Dembski-Bowden to a desk with hot pockets, red bull and water then tell him "fix this drivel. for the love of all thats holy in gaming restore the grimdark to this setting"

I lost you there. Is the problem that there isn't enough grim dark? I thought it was the other stuff that was absent...

its cartoonish and silly in an anime sort of way. no real sense of impending doom, just endless armies reincarnating and fighting over mmo style zones, making old characters in a weird new way. Nagash in his trilogy was a terrifying presence, he almost stole the show in suckmars one trilogy, now he seems just a buffoon.

Yeah, Nagash did not come off well in the audio drama trilogy. No where near the godly powerful, yet patient and ruthlessly clever character of his origin Trilogy, or even his appearances in the End Times books.

It also contradicted his presentation and stated goals in other Age of Sigmar books (the blurb on the previewed Balance of Power page states that he's trying to re-collect his mortarchs, which directly contradicts him rejecting Mannfred when the vampire came groveling to his doorstep, begging to be taken back), though, so I'm not sure whether the audio dramas should really be considered canon in this regard.

Their presentation of Arkhan was also all wrong, but not because he was tremendously out of character or anything, just the voice didn't fit him at all.

Mannfred, at least, was actually pretty good in those stories, recognizable and interesting with a respectable performance for the character, so they weren't a complete loss, I guess.

I usually dislike vampires and their pop culture renditions, but i really loved them in the old world, neferata was a great book IMO and whats going on now just doesnt really work with all the great time of legends stuff, hell when i first heard "age of suckmar(sigmar, i know but i always hated him as a char) I was hoping a more primitive skirmishy warhammer in the old world, not golden jackarses and savage doofus.

Don't start me on the dwarves I saw them I wanted to cry, AoS is one kick to the ands after another to veterans.

Then I saw the price £100 for 21 models I don't know what reality that's a reasonable price but it's not mine.

 Malisteen wrote:
Yeah, Nagash did not come off well in the audio drama trilogy. No where near the godly powerful, yet patient and ruthlessly clever character of his origin Trilogy, or even his appearances in the End Times books.

It also contradicted his presentation and stated goals in other Age of Sigmar books (the blurb on the previewed Balance of Power page states that he's trying to re-collect his mortarchs, which directly contradicts him rejecting Mannfred when the vampire came groveling to his doorstep, begging to be taken back), though, so I'm not sure whether the audio dramas should really be considered canon in this regard.

Their presentation of Arkhan was also all wrong, but not because he was tremendously out of character or anything, just the voice didn't fit him at all.

Mannfred, at least, was actually pretty good in those stories, recognizable and interesting with a respectable performance for the character, so they weren't a complete loss, I guess.

To your point i admit I do wonder where the audio dramas fit in the timeline. Since they were spread out my assumption is they were before the big campaign books, although I don't have them all so not exacyly sure where Nagash does [removed due to spoiler] but who knows. More audio drama series are coming, one very, very soon. I didn't like his voice at first listen but eventually powered through the dramas back to back and the voice grew on me. Just so many actors repeat across many titles so I know there's a limit but sometimes it's distracting.

I do get that WHFB had 30 years to build fluff, but a lot of that was redundant. I don't know if it was for legal reasons or just omitted, but they still haven't given a write up of all the existing armies. Most intro books for a table-top wargame (including previous GW books) Have a few paragraphs and pictures of each army. They detail who they are, where they are, who they fight, what they stand for or represent, and their weapons of war. Flipping through the mighty battles book, there are sparse representations of anything outside of the starter armies. (hints at Fyreslayers, Seraphon, Sylvaneth, and Undead,)

To put it another way, I know more from the released books about Aleguzzler Gargants then I do about brettonia. If I played brettonia, I think I would like to know more about where they are at, so I could forge the narrative with my army. I think I would also like to know if my army even exists!

That more then anything is the Crux of the issue. What armies and units are still going to get support, and what armies are getting canned.The only Empire models they have shown are battle priests and Flagellants. What about elves? What about the old Dwarf line? are the ogres moving over whole cloth, or just some of the units? I see a lot about Nagash, what about Settra and the Tomb kings?

I don't think any of this is an issue if you want to play any army that has a picture or mention in the current fluff, of course. I just don't think telling the so-called "legacy" players that they have to wait a year and a half to see if they can even fit their army into the current game, rules notwithstanding. I can use the brettonian rules, but in a scenario and plot driven game with no points, having an army or unit that no longer fits in it is kinda bad.

I think they should just bite the bullet and show their cards.

 VeteranNoob wrote:
To your point i admit I do wonder where the audio dramas fit in the timeline. Since they were spread out my assumption is they were before the big campaign books, although I don't have them all so not exacyly sure where Nagash does [removed due to spoiler] but who knows. More audio drama series are coming, one very, very soon. I didn't like his voice at first listen but eventually powered through the dramas back to back and the voice grew on me. Just so many actors repeat across many titles so I know there's a limit but sometimes it's distracting.

Yeah, Nagash's voice was not what I expected or wanted, but it grew on me by the end.



I'm a long time Chaos Marine player in 40k, Black Legion in particular, so I'm used to the disappointment that comes with hackneyed Black Library authors dumping all over their settings' villains in an attempt to make the heroes seem more invincible and cool, completely oblivious to the basic heroic narrative rule that your heroes are only as heroic as the villains they face are genuinely threatening. It's a major problem with 40k fiction, and it's sad to see the Sigmarines polluting the new fantasy fluff with those same problems.

Hopefully the problems with Nagash's portrayal stay in the audio dramas, and his presentation in future work goes back to the competent and manipulative Nagash of the End Times books.

thekingofkings wrote:
The old world had several rpg sources, video games and novels that really fleshed it out, their are ccg's and such as well. It was a very in depth setting that was tied tightly to its mini games. AoS has novels sorta, some sourcebooks and not alot else going for it. it is a very "alien" setting for fantasy, it should have been a complete new setting, new all around, as it is, it is pretty nonsensical. the style of fantasy feels like they went from tolkein to eberron with nothing in between.

This is a great point about development. For those of us really into the WFB universe the RPG material for the first two editions provided some nice fluff for the world if one wanted to write up fluff for one's army or Mordheim gang or whatever. I leave out third Ed. because all of my groups avoided it and stuck with 2nd plus some supplements from 1st. Loved Doomstones!

Way too early to know if there will be an RPG for AoS or if Fantasy Flight might be able to work on some game within the bounds of the new game, as seemingly endless that they are at this point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Malisteen wrote:

 VeteranNoob wrote:
To your point i admit I do wonder where the audio dramas fit in the timeline. Since they were spread out my assumption is they were before the big campaign books, although I don't have them all so not exacyly sure where Nagash does [removed due to spoiler] but who knows. More audio drama series are coming, one very, very soon. I didn't like his voice at first listen but eventually powered through the dramas back to back and the voice grew on me. Just so many actors repeat across many titles so I know there's a limit but sometimes it's distracting.

Yeah, Nagash's voice was not what I expected or wanted, but it grew on me by the end.

Spoiler:

Didn't forgive the way the story portrayed him as a petulent, self-destructive child without any cleverness or guile, acting completely opposed to his own interests, nor the way it portrayed his command over the dead as so much weaker than Sigmar's that even in his inner sanctum, at the very seat of his power he couldn't hold onto even a handful of Stormcast souls.

Arkhan's voice, on the other hand... no. That's all wrong. Too deep, too throaghty, and way, way too british. It was a voice for a Merlin or a Gandalf or a Dumbledore, an old but very much alive english wizard. Not a voice for a millennia-old ancient-egyptian skeletal lich. Arkhan's voice needed to be dryer, almost whispered, and with an Egyptian accent. It's a minor complaint next to the characterization problems with Nagash, but it bothered me, as Arkhan is my mortarch of choice.

I'm a long time Chaos Marine player in 40k, Black Legion in particular, so I'm used to the disappointment that comes with hackneyed Black Library authors dumping all over their settings' villains in an attempt to make the heroes seem more invincible and cool, completely oblivious to the basic heroic narrative rule that your heroes are only as heroic as the villains they face are genuinely threatening. It's a major problem with 40k fiction, and it's sad to see the Sigmarines polluting the new fantasy fluff with those same problems.

Hopefully the problems with Nagash's portrayal stay in the audio dramas, and his presentation in future work goes back to the competent and manipulative Nagash of the End Times books.

Absolutely agree on the voice mentioned in the spoiler. I'm new-ish still to Dakka and I haven't explored all the different buttons I can use
I think given this we should revisit this topic, oh, in say, 3-5 weeks or so

thekingofkings wrote:
The old world had several rpg sources, video games and novels that really fleshed it out, their are ccg's and such as well. It was a very in depth setting that was tied tightly to its mini games. AoS has novels sorta, some sourcebooks and not alot else going for it. it is a very "alien" setting for fantasy, it should have been a complete new setting, new all around, as it is, it is pretty nonsensical. the style of fantasy feels like they went from tolkein to eberron with nothing in between.

Less 'Tolkein to Eberron' and more 'Lord of the Rings to Silmarillian', imo. Definitely a more mythical scope. Which I'm personally fine with, but I do agree that, for a new game in a new setting, they really needed to flesh that thing out more at the start. It's very difficult to picture at times, and a lot of the outlandish locations visited don't feel like they existed in the setting before they were first described nor do they feel like they'll continue to exist the moment after the story leaves them. There needed to be a bit more planning put in, or if there was planning put in, then a bit more of that work needed to be shown up front.