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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Honestly in CC I like the simply idea of making it so that any number of models in base contact can use grenades, however those that aren't can not.

What about haywire grenades? Not to difficult to get 6 Swooping Hawks in base contact via disordered charge vs. 2 Preds or the like

While that is a potential problem I don't think it's worth nerfing all other grenades in the game over. If people don't think Swooping Hawks should be a good Anti Vehicle unit then it'd be better to change them so only the Exarch has Haywire grenades (like they did with Dark Eldar Wyches and Harlequin Troupes).

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Hardly, your giving krak granades WAY to much credit, along with frag which are sub par vs anything thats T4 or more.

We aren't talking about just krak grenades though...

Not to mention squad of tacticals will have good chance of wrecking most HP3 imperial vehicles in one go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think the big problem is that units that pay a price per model are completely wasted. Imperial guard vets have to pay 30pts to give everyone melta bombs, which grants the same number of meltabomb attacks as a character that payed 5pts.

Or 10 points since you also get 20 pts demolition bomb. So you are paying 5 pts for safety that you won't lose melta bomb by death of single model.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
While that is a potential problem I don't think it's worth nerfing all other grenades in the game over. If people don't think Swooping Hawks should be a good Anti Vehicle unit then it'd be better to change them so only the Exarch has Haywire grenades (like they did with Dark Eldar Wyches and Harlequin Troupes).

I meant it more as an example of the law of unintended consequences. I do think Swooping Hawks need to stay a good AV pick because it's not like the Eldar have a lot of other options in that regard.

In all seriousness, Haywire might have to be the exception. 1 grenade = 5/6 of a HP plus 1/6 pen effect regardless of AV. So without an inelegant exception, Exarch-only gear might be the answer, especially as I think of all the Aspect Warriors, the Hawks are the one that you'd never fail to take with an Exarch. (Well, with Aspect Hosts, you'd auto-take Exarchs except potentially DAs, but you know what I mean.)

tneva82 wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
Hardly, your giving krak granades WAY to much credit, along with frag which are sub par vs anything thats T4 or more.

We aren't talking about just krak grenades though...

Not to mention squad of tacticals will have good chance of wrecking most HP3 imperial vehicles in one go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think the big problem is that units that pay a price per model are completely wasted. Imperial guard vets have to pay 30pts to give everyone melta bombs, which grants the same number of meltabomb attacks as a character that payed 5pts.

Or 10 points since you also get 20 pts demolition bomb. So you are paying 5 pts for safety that you won't lose melta bomb by death of single model.

If Tactical Marines of all things manage to get to a vehicle they should have a reasonable chance to blown it up. You'd also deserve it for letting it happen.

Just make attack rules for grenades types.

Melta bombs - any model in a squad can use a melta bomb in CC. 1 use only. Models must be base to hull contact. If the vehicle explodes attacking units must go to ground. until their next turn
Haywire - Same as melta except that models do not need base contact and attackers do not go to ground

Any grenades with blast profiles - same as melta except that they can only be used by models NOT in base to base/hull contact. Any models from the attacker that are in base to base also suffer the grenade hit.
Blast & haywire - follow haywire rules - this is usually some kind of energy grenade that has special rules - like skitarii mindscrambler grenades

Any grenades with NON-blast profiles, NOT mentioned above(krak for example) - same as melta except that any model can use the grenade and that any models from the attacker that are in base to base also suffer the grenade hit.

Psychotroke Grenades, Psyk-out Grenades,Rad Grenades or any grenade that causes effects abut does not have an attack profile are exempt.

1 use only. I think is pretty dynamic. If you use your grenades they are gone and you don't get the bonuses going forward. Meaning you would need to say if you're using defensive or assault grenades before charging.

Why the set hit numbers? Your WS 1 blinded Marine should not hit a WS 5 Librarian Dread on a 4.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Why the set hit numbers? Your WS 1 blinded Marine should not hit a WS 5 Librarian Dread on a 4.

Your right.

Edited

Second issue-keeping track of who has used what grenades. Plus it's a major nerf to, say, Assault Marines-they get ONE CHARGE into terrain, and then they're reduced to I1 for every further charge into terrain.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Second issue-keeping track of who has used what grenades. Plus it's a major nerf to, say, Assault Marines-they get ONE CHARGE into terrain, and then they're reduced to I1 for every further charge into terrain.

Realistically what assault marine squad survives more than 1 charge? I think "major" nerf is an over statement.

As for record keeping, yah. It's something to remember. this squad used of 5 used 3 grenades last time. Again. Realistically. Any time a squad uses grenades everyone in the squad will use said grenades. WS2 tau firewarriors against ws 5 furioso dread, if any of them are still alive after being assaulted, will use all their remaining haywire grenades(if purchased even) on that dread. If the dread doesn't die, the FW will most likely be swept.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also how I wanted the rules to be interpreted, those grenades are 1 use only. So I wanted it interpreted as a 5 man assault squad would get assault 5 assaults with assault grenade bonuses - that is if they expended an assault grenade each turn. But an assault grenade is S3 ap - blast. so why would they ever throw them in CC.

1-5 models, 1d3 granades throw
5-10 models, 1d6 grenades throw
10-20 models 2d6 grenades throw
20-30 models 3d6 grenades throw

etc...

may be a solution, what you guys think ?

 General Orange wrote:
1-5 models, 1d3 granades throw
5-10 models, 1d6 grenades throw
10-20 models 2d6 grenades throw
20-30 models 3d6 grenades throw

etc...

may be a solution, what you guys think ?

Less random the better. There is already too much.

Sometimes, with those rolls, you can throw more grenades than you have models.