Astra Militarum: More Competitive in 8th Edition?

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**Colonel Cross**

RogueApiary wrote:

Why Veterans with flamers? You're paying a 2 point premium for +1 BS to not use it. An SWS can also take 3 flamers and you can stuff two into a Chimera. I mean, you lose the HF from the vets and burn another elite slot (but that s what Vanguard dets are for), but that's still 6 flamers vs 3 + HF. Currently, I like to run run 2x Plasma CCS + Company Commander in a BBQ Chimera. Works pretty well in normal games, but I got stomped 0-3 in a tournament last week so I'm probably going to cut them.

Haha yeah that is definitely not a competitive way to deploy Scions in a tournament, but it is fun. We are close though to having a viable mechanized, fun, competitive list. I don't see it happening, but if you don't mind losing you can certainly have some fun with our mech options.

For instance, SWSs can only chuck 1 demo charge at a time, it's 1 use, and they'll never survive to throw a 2nd. Only meltas or super charging plasmas synergize with it. You can put 2 of those in a Chimera and have a nice little punch putting out 4 meltas and 2 demo charges. But why go through all that trouble and pay all those points when our BS is so poor and demo charges are unreliable # of shots. It's just not very efficient. If they could include heavy flamers I'd seriously consider putting 2 SWSs in a Chimera with a total of 4x flamers and 2 heavy flamers. But as it stands they're just under powered. I hope they make that change in the codex.

**Colonel Cross**

I used 3 Chimera with 6 Bullgryn, a priest, Straken, Yarrick, and a pysker + 2 SWSs in one of my first games of 8th. As long as you hit non CC specialist units it should be quite brutal. It's pretty good in OBJ based games since we now have a very strong base of fire and the best deep strikers so these resilient mobile units are quite tough since it's hard for an opponent to prioritize targets.

**Colonel Cross**

fe40k wrote:
How viable are our super heavy tanks?

Specifically; do you think a list of 3 super heavies at 2000 points would be durable enough? I don't think that 3 would be tough enough (considering 4 knights can be dealt with), but I'm just curious, because of the following list:

Stormlord (+4 Twin-Heavy Bolter, +4 Lascannon, +1 Heavy Stubber (Pintle))
embarked: 18 (6x3) HWT - Heavy Bolter
embarked: 1 Company Commander
Shadowsword (+4 Twin-Heavy Bolter, +4 Lascannon)
Shadowsword (+4 Twin-Heavy Bolter, +4 Lascannon)

Frankly, it started with me being curious how much dakka I could get out of a Stormlord; ended up with ~119 Heavy Bolter-ish shots, for 800 points. The other two super heavies are for anti-vehicle duty, and extra dakka.

Sure; 800/600/600 points are tied up into the three vehicles which are more vulnerable than I'd like; but, that much dakka coming from the dakka-boat that would be the Stormlord; makes the Ork in me proud .

That said... if this list has to move at all (which it will, since it needs to get in range), its firepower goes down significantly... BS4 => BS5, ouch.

Still... I'm almost tempted to drop the ~$600 to make it a silly reality. But, I doubt I could find opponents down for facing triple-super heavy outside of a tournament (at least it's not quad-heavy Baneblades XD).

Can you squeeze in an Astropath to give the storm Lord +1 save?

**Colonel Cross**

Those 2 astropaths are only going to run you 30 pts ... so you can still get some more goodies. Additionally, just start them embarked and disembark to use the power. That will save you the drop. Besides, you should only need 1 Astropath anyway since you can only cast 1 of each power.

**Colonel Cross**

SGT Harker has been an auto include for me.

**Colonel Cross**

They're in stock in the US store. And I doubt the status of the Sentinel is a good indicator of any updated IG models.

**Colonel Cross**

CplPunishment wrote:
KestrelM1 wrote:
CplPunishment wrote:
Basilisks are good in multiples as well. If you can't afford 2, 1 might be ok (can't hurt). However many you take, remember that they roll 2d6 and pick the highest to determine the number of shots. A master of ordnance nearby allows them to reroll 1s to hit units more than 36" away.

If you're buying enough Basilisks that you want a Master of Ordnance as well, strongly consider Sergeant Harker (and <Catachan> Basilisks) over the MoO. Harker has a bigger bubble, no 36"+ restriction, a solid gun, and can affect units outside the Basilisks as well. All for only 12 points more.

Using Harker is a solid idea, provided you want to use the Catachan regiment keyword. Right now the only keywords worth using are CATACHAN and CADIA, but we'll see what happens in the upcoming codex (maybe the other regiments will get some lovin').

That is not how I prefer to use him, however. I field Harker with two Plasma/Lascannon Vet squads and a Company commander (3+ to hit, 2-3+ to wound, rerolling 1s to hit and wound is NICE). When I take a Shadowsword, I give it the CATACHAN keyword and park him and his cohort next to that for more fun.

When it comes to Basilisks, I field two pairs as far away from each other as possible--unless the deployment zone makes that inadvisable. Each pair has a MoO babysitting, preferably with a good vantage point so he hits on 3+. (A nearby company commander can further maximize the effectiveness of his one-use barrage by ordering him to take aim). The theory is that each battery can cover for the other, while infantry stymies incoming forces. So far it has worked well, but I have only recently adopted this strategy so time will tell.

Definitely seems viable although it costs a good bit just to allow reroll 1s.

**Colonel Cross**

Well Yarrick can allow rerolls of all Astra Militarum units. So if you can get him close to some flyers, he'll probably be more beneficial than Pask haha.

That's an interesting list haha. What's up with the 2 Vindicares? Those bums could net you a freaking Valkyrie!

**Colonel Cross**

Typically a 1-2 Punch of Scions then Eversor + Rough Riders. The Valkyries are also so bad offensively that I've had more than 1 game that I've been able to return to my lines, pick up a 2nd unit, then drop them off somewhere. Nobody cares to shoot them lol.

**Colonel Cross**

My advice to you would be to put heavy bolter heavy weapons squads in the stormlord and then put heavy flamer sponsons on it. Then get that beast into CC with a horde unit.

Failing the points for that, the mortars would do ok, but S4 AP- and D6 shots isn't exactly the answer to horde armies if you ever move that thing as pretty much everything will still get a save. They are dirt cheap though, so try out a few different combos.

I will say this though, with that # of lascannons, why bother with plasma at all? haha.

**Colonel Cross**

I say good to go on that! Seems like a good ratio of everything. At that point, who cares about bubble wrapping the Stormlord if it has that many heavy flamers? haha. Just need those 10 dudes for your Terminus Ultras.

**Colonel Cross**

Guess it's just my local meta but I initially was running 2x5 Ratling squads and a Vindicare. They did ok but I'd rather spend the 190pts on almost anything else.

**Colonel Cross**

Probably better off getting a bunch of Laser Rapier Destroyers!

**Colonel Cross**

Why would that be cheesy?

Just a few weeks ago there were flyer heavy space marine lists, and still seeing lots in my local meta. So using 1 I'd say is quite fair.

**Colonel Cross**

Regardless, how easily can we split up our detachments?

**Colonel Cross**

Given the Pask FAQ and inferring the intent of the rules as written, I'm inclined to believe officers cannot be ordered.

Possibly even more useful than ordering the likes of Yarrick or Pask to fight in the shooting phase is ordering an officer to MOVE MOVE MOVE! in order to keep up with the units that have already done so. I find myself running troops to grab OBJs and then the ordering officer is left in the dust.

**Colonel Cross**

rhinoceraids wrote:
Valks aren't inherently bad.

I just hate paying for a lascannon which is going to hit on a 5.

Could bring an officer of the fleet to help allow for rerolling 1's?

I only run them fully loaded anymore. My opponents just don't shoot at them, lol. Which is exactly what I want until I drop off their load of Bullgryn with a Priest and maybe Straken and the other one dumps off a bunch of vets with shotguns and as many flamers as they can carry!

I do actually like the lascannon on it though, I've managed to hit more with that stupid thing on 5+ than my regular guard squads. And the fact it can spit out 2D6 S5 AP-1 MRPs and then the 2x heavy bolters I add is at least fun to throw dice around. But once they drop their loads off, they just can hover and actually do something. I think I may have done more damage to enemy vehicles this edition with heavy bolters than damn near any other weapon system haha.

**Colonel Cross**

D6 damage but 1-3 = 3 damage minimum. Like the neutron laser.

**Colonel Cross**

I don't even bother with Russes. And I only own 1 Bailisk. I wish I could get my hands on some Earthshaker platforms.

**Colonel Cross**

I've run that + Astropath for +1 to saves

**Colonel Cross**

I think a Culexus and a Primaris Psyker and Astropath are probably required. That would also be an excellent time for a Vindicare and 10 Ratlings to do their thing.

**Colonel Cross**

Wait, don't you reroll THEN apply modifiers?

**Colonel Cross**

I've been using him as just a 3+ and that's it. It never even occurred to me about multiple damage wounds ... Thinking about it more I'm pretty sure it's just supposed to be after his last wound is lost, it doesn't read like any of the FNP equivalents and you can't lose your last wound more than once due to multiple damage, right?

**Colonel Cross**

I think it needs to be FAQd. It could easily go either way! I don't think they updated the rules for him with weapons capable of dealing D6 damage in mind!

**Colonel Cross**

Haha FW doesn't always make sense.

I wish all these other threads hating on Scions or conscripts were instead bashing on Bullgryn. Lol. I've loved Ogryns since I first started playing in 3rd edition.

Sad that for 5 decked out Wulfen you can get 6 Bullgryn that would just get absolutely demolished by them.

I wonder how Bullgryn vs assault termies would go? I'm betting it would come down to who gets to go first ...

**Colonel Cross**

Haha right? Might as well just take 1 demo charge!

**Colonel Cross**

That's how I've been playing him

**Colonel Cross**

They're worthless now. Maybe if they extended the range to unlimited, (highly unlikely) they might be worth 5 points.

I find orders most useful near my heavy weapons squads since I park Harker by them to reroll 1s to hit and use orders to reroll 1s to wound. They can't take voxes so even less reason for them to cost 5 points.

**Colonel Cross**

Sorry. I'm still not on board with the Baneblade chassis. It's bS mixed with no invulnerable save means I'd rather take a knight over it any day.

In my local meta there is so much AT and maneuverable units, it would be a disaster.

**Colonel Cross**

Well most people don't have the best FW version of a baneblade to play with ... That variant isn't even CLOSE to how poorly the others perform AND it is way cheaper! I wish I had that thing, haha. I would probably use it.