8th Army Tiers (yes i'm going there)

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**Arachnofiend**

Grimgold wrote:
PUFNSTUF wrote:

Was that knight game a 2kgame? I didn't think an army like that would be able to work this edition. Did you just focus down a knight at a time

Yes a 2k game, I used the deceiver to redeploy into a denied flank which let me concentrate on magnus and a knight and left 3 of his knights half way across the table with no targets. Magnus died a few shots into the second round, the knight with him died to the deceiver in the assault phase of the second round, after that is was one a round. In all fairness I messed up the timing on the deceivers redeploy, but I don't think it ended up mattering. I think he was the 4 LoW FoC and the minus 1 command point FoC for magnus, but magnus gives you two bonus CP, so he ended up with 6 total CP. If it had been a straight shin kicking contest he would have mopped the floor with me, but because I was able to trick him into feeding me his army a mouthful at a time, i was able to get an early points advantage and he wasn't able to catch up. I don't know if I would be on me in the rematch though, now that he knows my tricks he will be a lot more cautious about relative concentration of forces.

Wait, how is Magnus giving 2 bonus CP? The only Chaos model I saw with a rule like that was Kairos.

**PUFNSTUF**

Arachnofiend wrote:
Grimgold wrote:
PUFNSTUF wrote:

Was that knight game a 2kgame? I didn't think an army like that would be able to work this edition. Did you just focus down a knight at a time

Yes a 2k game, I used the deceiver to redeploy into a denied flank which let me concentrate on magnus and a knight and left 3 of his knights half way across the table with no targets. Magnus died a few shots into the second round, the knight with him died to the deceiver in the assault phase of the second round, after that is was one a round. In all fairness I messed up the timing on the deceivers redeploy, but I don't think it ended up mattering. I think he was the 4 LoW FoC and the minus 1 command point FoC for magnus, but magnus gives you two bonus CP, so he ended up with 6 total CP. If it had been a straight shin kicking contest he would have mopped the floor with me, but because I was able to trick him into feeding me his army a mouthful at a time, i was able to get an early points advantage and he wasn't able to catch up. I don't know if I would be on me in the rematch though, now that he knows my tricks he will be a lot more cautious about relative concentration of forces.

Wait, how is Magnus giving 2 bonus CP? The only Chaos model I saw with a rule like that was Kairos.

\

hes got the warlord bonus.

**Voss**

buddha wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
buddha wrote:
Best contenders are the three horde armies in no particular order; tyranids, orks, and guard.

What makes you say that? I play orks, and I've found that cover, which basically is what saved my army in 7th, is almost useless. LoS means almost nothing, if you can see one model the entire unit can die. +1 to saves is woefully insufficient - I have kommandos in a ruin, which before was basically a 3+ save from almost everything, who get zero saves from, say, ad mech grav gun spam.

I don't mean to complain too much, I'm pretty happy with 8th generally, but the way cover works (or, more accurately, how it does not), is a pretty massive detriment to horde armies, in my opinion.

Then you toss in the fact that anyone can waltz out of combat at-will in what I like to term the "I'm taking my ball and going home" maneuver, and getting into CC isn't much help either.

THEN toss in the fact that a TON of weapons got double shots. I get that twin-linked weapons got double shots across the board, but for imperial armies (or armies that hit on 3+s), that's a MASSIVE buff, even factoring in -1 to hit on heavy weapons when they move. And then there's storm bolters which got double shots for absolutely no reason whatsoever........

I'm getting off point, but I certainly don't think that orks are OMGWTFBBQOP at the moment. The fact that so many things just put out a TON of shots and that orks basically don't get saves against them anymore (or laughably pitiful ones) isn't exactly a winning combination.

So Orks, like the Tyranids and Guard, have the base tools that 8th is built for. Numbers, able to spam command points, lots of cheap vehicles. Your vehicles are cheap, deadly, and plentiful. Your artillery is good. And your walker spam is incredible. Best yet, you can spam large numbers of cheap board control troops for everything from objectives to dictating deepstrike and bubble wrapping. Hear so many people complaining about 50 conscript blobs? Ork don't care with their own mobs of slugga and shoota boyzs. Hear people complaining about how their army is going to pop enemy transports? Orks don't care with amazing walkers and vehicles of their own. Hear people complaining about how little 2k points actually lets them bring in 8th? Orks don't care as their stuff is cheap and point efficient.

I'm not saying one of the three is the best yet; I'm just saying the 3 horde armies, including orks, have the tools to be among the best.

A lot of that is true, except perhaps the part about popping enemy transports Orks are fairly lacking in AT except for a small handful of specific things, struggle to hit with guns, and in general don't do lots of damage when they do.
It's a weakness they share with tyranids, usually at least 1 (if not 2) of BS, S, AP and Damage is lacking, a problem that isn't shared with the main line imperium armies, non-clown eldar, chaos marines, or even genestealer cults. Necrons pretty certainly overpay for theirs, and Tau need to spam specific units.

Against infantry heavy armies this won't be a problem, but against moderate to heavy armor (or MCs), they're going to struggle. And most other armies are going to take out the ranged support/close combat threats in short order with volleys of lascannons, dark/bright lances and so on. The flocks of scourges will blot out the sun, and the guard will roll dice for days.

**Arachnofiend**

PUFNSTUF wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Grimgold wrote:
PUFNSTUF wrote:

Was that knight game a 2kgame? I didn't think an army like that would be able to work this edition. Did you just focus down a knight at a time

Yes a 2k game, I used the deceiver to redeploy into a denied flank which let me concentrate on magnus and a knight and left 3 of his knights half way across the table with no targets. Magnus died a few shots into the second round, the knight with him died to the deceiver in the assault phase of the second round, after that is was one a round. In all fairness I messed up the timing on the deceivers redeploy, but I don't think it ended up mattering. I think he was the 4 LoW FoC and the minus 1 command point FoC for magnus, but magnus gives you two bonus CP, so he ended up with 6 total CP. If it had been a straight shin kicking contest he would have mopped the floor with me, but because I was able to trick him into feeding me his army a mouthful at a time, i was able to get an early points advantage and he wasn't able to catch up. I don't know if I would be on me in the rematch though, now that he knows my tricks he will be a lot more cautious about relative concentration of forces.

Wait, how is Magnus giving 2 bonus CP? The only Chaos model I saw with a rule like that was Kairos.
\

hes got the warlord bonus.

Is this a general rule that I'm not seeing? It's definitely not coming from Magnus himself, extra command points for a certain model being your warlord would be in the abilities list (again, like Kairos's Foretell ability).

**labmouse42**

Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Harlequins, Tyranids, Imperium are the three strongest factions I think

imperium has 2 books honchos from. That helps a lot

**Grimgold**

Arachnofiend wrote:

Is this a general rule that I'm not seeing? It's definitely not coming from Magnus himself, extra command points for a certain model being your warlord would be in the abilities list (again, like Kairos's Foretell ability).

Just checked it myself guess he was cheating, Magnus is a LoW so he should have had 5 cp.