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 Kanluwen wrote:

Arachnofiend wrote:
They probably aren't the worst snipers in the game per se, but I've been generally unimpressed with the efficiency of snipers in general. The Marauders being a bit more survivable than most might make them a more interesting option though; I'd certainly want to try them out.

What, exactly, are the Marauders meant to be? Guardsmen or Chaos Astartes?

They are mercenary humans.

That actually intrigues me now. Hrmh.

I have am unending host army and I am very sad after reading all this. I dont want to live anymore...

This is too bad really. Once I was done with my DKoK I had planned on either a Tyrant of Badab army or a renegades army.

Wait! Tell me more about chaos spawns! Are there chaos spawns in the Renegades and Heretic book of 8th edition?

 CadianGateTroll wrote:
Wait! Tell me more about chaos spawns! Are there chaos spawns in the Renegades and Heretic book of 8th edition?

Spawns still exist, and just need to share a key word (chaos) to be in the detachment

But I get the disappointment in a pure renegade army.. but there does appear to be a case they are costed due to the new army building style..

So you can easily put in CSM and Daemons into the force.

Plus the amount of errors in all of the FW books.. their entire release for 8th has been disappointing and would say no one buy any of the physical book until they rectify their mistakes

But they cost as much as the CSM ones...

I used to field 36 of these for just 648pts. Now they cost 540pts more! 1188pts.

If they had 10"move i would have been happy.

Guys just keep mailing them with all the errors you find.
Definitely not buying this until Al the bugs are fixed.

Wow sounds like a total hack-job.

But really a death in the team probably why this seems to be a rush job

GodDamUser wrote:
But really a death in the team probably why this seems to be a rush job

between that and the blow to morale combined with the fact that we're hearing signs that these indexes where a "total rush job"..

someone says they heard that FW was given like. only a week's time with the new rules to write the indexes

So after looking at R&H I think the most useful thing they have is.... cheap characters with the Chaos keyword for summoning.

Drager wrote:
So after looking at R&H I think the most useful thing they have is.... cheap characters with the Chaos keyword for summoning.

Very much this.
I'm also glad to have access to a baneblade
I don't see myself running my renegades as renegades. Poxwalkers are better.
The disciples and marauders have some utility as cheap heavy weapons. The rest make decent slot fillers in a brigade.

Drager wrote:
So after looking at R&H I think the most useful thing they have is.... cheap characters with the Chaos keyword for summoning.

They have one character unit, the Malefic Lord. No other units have the character keyword. But yes, 30 pts summong might be good for something.

 Trickstick wrote:
I think it would be ok if all you want to do is add a few guardsmen or vehicles to your existing Chaos force.

That's the real value from it. If you wanted to add a chimera or some artillery to your chaos force, it's useful.

I'm really sad as I'm a newer player (1.5yrs), and just recently found this army and love the look of them. I also really like KDK and IG's vehicles, so it seemed like a perfect match. Hopefully they'll fix some of these issues this year.

Demantiae wrote:
Oh they can take 4 specials you say?. Good luck hitting anything with your ork aim.

Flamers.

120" leadership bubble is great, until you roll a 1 & 2 for the leadership on your command squad and wasted those 10 points.

CP's.

The covenants aren't balanced at all. Nurgles just plain sucks - a 6++ vs weapons of S4 or less. WOW! How many weapons of S3 or 4 do we have?

Most of them actually.

1k Sons? Anything else? Slaanesh gets an ok bonus with extra advance and charge moves but then you're gonna want to run everything and not use that sweet BS5+.

Run in and tarpit.

Tzeentch is actually ok though, overwatch on 5+ is very nice.

On a huge unit, its downright scary.

Other than this there's some good stuff in there, but it's good stuff to take as auxiliary forces for other chaos armies. You want snipers in your CSM army? well you got a stealth sniper team for 34pts. Take 4 of them and drop that havoc squad you don't really need anyway. 8 sniper rifles should get you some value on the table. disciples are also good. Give them plasma and they're every bit as good as marines with plasma at a fraction of the cost. And you don't need to feel bad about overcharging these sacrificial lambs, they're not marines afterall and thus their lives don't matter.

So some very good units exist.

Malifice wrote:

Demantiae wrote:
Oh they can take 4 specials you say?. Good luck hitting anything with your ork aim.

Flamers.

It's literally your only option, forcing you to go all in with CC units.

Malifice wrote:

Demantiae wrote:
The covenants aren't balanced at all. Nurgles just plain sucks - a 6++ vs weapons of S4 or less. WOW! How many weapons of S3 or 4 do we have?

Most of them actually.

Yes but those weapons that make up the majority weapons have AP0 and the R&H units get a 6+ save anyway. So 6++ is useless. Off the top of my head I can think of only Necrons who have AP-1 on <S5 weapons. Most weapons with negative AP values are S5 or higher. If you rule was 6++ for S5 or lower weapons it'd be useful. Although I don't see why a straight up 6+ FnP couldn't have been their rule. Plague Marine light just as the Khorne Covenant is kind of Zerker light.


The argument that R&H are costed to include the possibility of allying in daemons and CSM doesn't hold water, given the AM are costed to include the possibility of allying in marines and the hoard of other Imperial armies. Once you run through the various specialised factions (Mechanicum, Custodes, GK's, Girlyman, coloured chapters etc) the Imperium has better options available to them, more options available to them and their "average soldier" faction gets much better rules, better stats and costs less than the chaos "average soldier" faction. Access to daemons and sub-par vehicle options in the form of funky daemon engines doesn't compensate the poor costing here. If daemons were actually scary and powerful that might be a different story.>

Reading all this makes me very sad. My RH army is garbage...

Having not looked at them I wonder if one important distinction is that Renegades have different key words associated with them? It still sounds a bit like a dumpster fire but I imagine that the IG and Renegades don't have the same key words.

 Ahtman wrote:
Having not looked at them I wonder if one important distinction is that Renegades have different key words associated with them? It still sounds a bit like a dumpster fire but I imagine that the IG and Renegades don't have the same key words.

They replace the <REGIMENT> keyword with RENEGADES AND HERETICS, and IMPERIUM with CHAOS. Some of the units will have the ASTRA MILITARUM keyword as well, but as the unique units from the army list does not have that one, you can't really build a R&H army around it anyway.