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Is the BLOB-STAR good for the game?
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BLOBBY G for life

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Made in gb
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores





I haven't voted because I don't think it's an issue. I've never seen a full blob deployment. Closest I've ever seen is simply having a couple units close enough to HQ option to get buffs. Everything else gets deployed along the full deployment zone.

40K:
Death Guard - 6450 points.

AoS:
Seraphon - 440 points.

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Made in fr
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I dislike anything that leads to a less mobile game.

I think 9th edition needs to bring a "Hero phase" and to turn Auras into Orders. But Orders with a chance of failure (like "My will be done"). Not those we have right now which are just better Psychic Powers.

Deffskullz desert scavengers
Thousand Sons 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






What other blob stars are there? it seems to mostly be a girlyman problem and we all know he is one type of issue.


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Tail-spinning Tomb Blade Pilot





Michigan

 Desubot wrote:
What other blob stars are there? it seems to mostly be a girlyman problem and we all know he is one type of issue.



I've played against a necron and blood angel blob. They weren't very effective but the "smashed" together units made for a not very thematic game.

Necrons - 6000+
Eldar/DE/Harlequins- 6000+
Genestealer Cult - 2000
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Made in us
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 supreme overlord wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
What other blob stars are there? it seems to mostly be a girlyman problem and we all know he is one type of issue.



I've played against a necron and blood angel blob. They weren't very effective but the "smashed" together units made for a not very thematic game.


I mean realistically these leaders would be no where near the battle and just command from above but asides from that they probably should be near the center leading their armys as they all push up forward is a pretty thematic look.

it doesn't work for everyone and some armies or units should probably be more autonomously flanking or doing a thing. but personally i dont think it looks that bad.

game wise i dont think it would be as much of an issue if 1) melee was better as characters are more susceptible in cc or 2) snipers were more abundant or just better in general)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver





 supreme overlord wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
What other blob stars are there? it seems to mostly be a girlyman problem and we all know he is one type of issue.



I've played against a necron and blood angel blob. They weren't very effective but the "smashed" together units made for a not very thematic game.

Sounds like the players didn't know what they're doing. The necron equivalent to an HQ aura only affects a single unit so there's no reason to blob up and blood angels' entire thing is super-mobile assault units, trying to make a blob army with them is just wasting your advantages and playing a gakky version of Ultramarines.
   
Made in us
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McCragge

I currently play Ultramarines but have avoided running Bobby G because I think he’s too much of a crutch and overall dumbs down developing solid tactics. That said I’ve played against him and he is really good but well costed imo.

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Auras should be nerfed down to 3 inches.

Bobby G should be dropped to 380 points and given 12 to 14 wounds.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/27 08:02:02


In war there is poetry; in death, release. 
   
Made in us
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant






It bothers me a bit, but only certain armies really do it. I did an Abaddon blob for a while but got a little bored with it. It's easy enough to not blob too, or at least multiblob, which opens up the table more.

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Moscow

Auras could affect only very specific unit type, or work only in specific phase too. Cheaper specialized commanders could affect melee units during fight phase so they'd have to charge or do glorious intervention, while more expensive ones could use long range orders with limited amount of targets.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




clownshoes wrote:
Auras should be nerfed down to 3 inches.

Bobby G should be droped to 380 points and given 12 to 14 wounds.


At 380 points and targetable he would never see play.

In general i don't think that blobbing is an issue, it rarely happens (mostly Gman) and even if that happens that's still better than the "2000 points in a single unit" we had in 7th.

The only thing one could change for aura abilities is having a max number of affected units, base value should be 3 for captains, 2 for LTs and 4 for Chapter Masters.

Edit: After thinking about it, i think that Bobby would still see play like that...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/27 07:54:32


 
   
Made in ca
Death-Dealing Ultramarine Devastator





clownshoes wrote:
Auras should be nerfed down to 3 inches.

Bobby G should be dropped to 380 points and given 12 to 14 wounds.


Dropped to 380 points when he cost 360 seems legit.

Ultramarine 3500
Nids 4000
Grey Knights 1000
Ad mech 1000
Necrons 1000 
   
Made in fi
Fixture of Dakka





 Elbows wrote:


I'd argue if you think 7th ed. 40K is "tactical" or "strategic" in any way shape or form, you're missing out on a world of actual strategic wargames --- 40K is the kiddie pool of actual military wargames.


It's not whether 7th ed is tactical or strategic compared to top line of games. It's question is it more tactical/strategical than 8th ed that's just roll dice in huge blop.

You do know there's more than 2 choices? Like big hunking huge scale of various shades. And 40k models don't fit other games that well and other games don't have background 40k and even less players. There are reasons why players might want to play best game set in 40k rather than rule that's best just on rules. Games have after all more than just rules to consider. Models, background, player availability to name a few.

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6700 pts
5150 pts  
   
Made in au
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin





Perth

Blob is an issue, for literally one faction in the game, because of one character that is very good.

Where are the nid blobs, the chaos blobs, the demon blobs, the GSC blobs, the guard blobs.

You get my point.

You dont like bobby g, cool. But dont make a post decrying the entirety of a game because you dont like how one faction plays competitively.

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Regular Dakkanaut




I don't see blob star often outside of Guilliman. And like, you would rally around a Primarch, wouldn't you? So it's not a problem for me.
   
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Italy

The aura concept is very good IMHO, better than letting characters join other units. Some of them are just too powerful.

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Bristol

craftworld_uk wrote:
I don't see blob star often outside of Guilliman. And like, you would rally around a Primarch, wouldn't you? So it's not a problem for me.


But not to the point of the whole army sitting around him. Hannibal wouldn't have succeeded in his campaigns if all his men just huddled around him staring in awe at his sandals in every battle. It's a guaranteed way to get surrounded and decimated.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/12/27 13:47:51


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Made in ie
Dominating Dominatrix






Dublin, Ireland

An ok mechanic in principal but wildly over used to the point of tedium and one dimensionality.
My last few games it feels like its all auras, re rolls and shooties.

Dman137 wrote:
goobs is all you guys will ever be

By 1-irt: Still as long as Hissy keeps showing up this is one of the most entertaining threads ever.

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Made in gb
Sinewy Scourge




Birmingham

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
craftworld_uk wrote:
I don't see blob star often outside of Guilliman. And like, you would rally around a Primarch, wouldn't you? So it's not a problem for me.


But not to the point of the whole army sitting around him. Hannibal wouldn't have succeeded in his campaigns if all his men just huddled around him staring in awe at his sandals in every battle. It's a guaranteed way to get surrounded and decimated.

That is the worst comparison ever.
   
Made in gb
Cunning Dark Elf Sorceress




Bristol

 Imateria wrote:
 A Town Called Malus wrote:
craftworld_uk wrote:
I don't see blob star often outside of Guilliman. And like, you would rally around a Primarch, wouldn't you? So it's not a problem for me.


But not to the point of the whole army sitting around him. Hannibal wouldn't have succeeded in his campaigns if all his men just huddled around him staring in awe at his sandals in every battle. It's a guaranteed way to get surrounded and decimated.

That is the worst comparison ever.


Not really, just because you have a strong, capable leader does not mean you have to be standing next to him to benefit from that. If even in the ancient world commanders were able to exert influence over a whole battlefield, I see no reason that in 40K units would have to cluster around a general to benefit.

IMO army commanders should instead generate CP per turn (up to a maximum limit) and unlock access to unique powers using CP, and you can only spend command points whilst your army general is alive and on the board. That actually introduces player choices, do you spend your 2CP this turn to increase the defence of your front line infantry or wait until next turn to spend 3CP to increase the effectiveness of the flanking cavalry charge you're about to perform? If you wait your line might break, making your general vulnerable but if you don't wait, your cavalry may not be able to rout the enemy on the charge and will be vulnerable to a counter attack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/27 14:13:53


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That would be a cool mechanic especially if various HQ generated a different amount. Dropzone commander has a similar mechanic where you leader generates a specific amount of command cards each turn, and more expensive commanders generate more. So maybe you would tie it to being the warlord. If x character is your warlord he generates y cp each turn.
   
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Michigan

 Ratius wrote:
An ok mechanic in principal but wildly over used to the point of tedium and one dimensionality.
My last few games it feels like its all auras, re rolls and shooties.


This has been exactly my experience. blobbed to the point it looks like a herd of cattle ready to run each other over just to get that re-roll. and on the point of re-rolls I was kind of hoping we'd see an end to most of it after 7th edition, especially the 2+ re-roll. I was wrong. Playing Dark Angels last week left me wondering why this is even called a dice game, he was re-rolling nearly everything

Necrons - 6000+
Eldar/DE/Harlequins- 6000+
Genestealer Cult - 2000
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Made in us
Dakka Veteran





It's wild to me that so many people see nothing but this 'blob' play style when there aren't that many armies that favor it. Granted you might see bugs and guard blobbed up but that's the nature of a horde army. As far as armies clustered around characters - again playing Eldar I never do it or at most have have 1 character with a unit. Obviously marines favor it but their strength as an army is their auras. I rarely see chaos doing it (I see cultists hanging around a boss for morale but that's about it). I guess personally I don't mind units clustered near buffing characters because it generally makes sense to me.

I certainly don't think the game looks any better worse or than it did in 6th or 7th by virtue.
   
Made in us
Lesser Daemon of Chaos





 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Not really, just because you have a strong, capable leader does not mean you have to be standing next to him to benefit from that. If even in the ancient world commanders were able to exert influence over a whole battlefield, I see no reason that in 40K units would have to cluster around a general to benefit..


Yes, but 40k tries to evoke a more Roman style, I tend to think of it like Julius Caesar, who would show up in his red cloak to sections of the battle that needed inspiration and rally the troops by the sight of his red cloak.

I think the auras are great, they make characters powerful without hiding them in squads. There is definitely a tactical aspect to singling out those characters and getting hits on them.

As for blob-stars, some armies are specifically designed to have that feeling. Death Guard is pretty specifically designed for the blob concept, obviously because they want to create the sense of the shambling horde of the dead, and it works. DG has tons of overlapping auras, they all do different things, and using them effectively means your blob isn't a shapeless mass, but a very specifically formed and designed rank concept. Disparaging it as banal, or simplistic is either oversimplifying the concept or missing the point.

Nobody claimed that Roman phalanxes were blob-stars requiring no skill, imagination or tactical skill, yet, superficially, according to this conversation, they are.

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Denver, Colorado

 supreme overlord wrote:


This has been exactly my experience. blobbed to the point it looks like a herd of cattle ready to run each other over just to get that re-roll. and on the point of re-rolls I was kind of hoping we'd see an end to most of it after 7th edition, especially the 2+ re-roll. I was wrong. Playing Dark Angels last week left me wondering why this is even called a dice game, he was re-rolling nearly everything


In some fairness, at least there isn't any such thing as a 2+ rerollable save anymore.

That being said, yeah, there is still plenty of stuff (shooting, mostly), that is a 2+ rerollable, which I still don't like. Like you said, it's barely a dice game at that point.

Like morty, for example. Rerolls 1s to hit and to wound, and he hits and typically wounds on 2s.

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 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
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 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't vote because I really don't think it's a problem considering the worst offender of blob star (Guilliman) is actually part of the weakest army in the game and even with ultimate blobstar power still can't place highly in tournaments. however - if other armies had access to this style of play - it would be overwhelming to the point it would break the game.


this is factually bullgak

Below is the current breakdown of what armies are winning events. The list combines all the top lists for 8th edition 2017 ITC season events only, taking only the top three from each Major or GT.

20 Astra Militarum
17 Chaos Space Marines
16 Ultramarines
16 Daemons
16 Ynnari
7 Orks
4 Space Marines
4 T’au Empire
4 Grey Knights
3 Officio Assassinorum
3 Blood Angels
3 Sisters of Battle
3 Death Guard
2 Genestealer Cults
2 Imperial Knights
2 Renegade Knights
2 Adeptus Mechanicus
2 Tyranids
1 Space Wolves
1 Adeptus Custodes
1 Dark Angels

2500pts
2500
3000


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut




That list though does not contain any games with CA. You can expect Astra Militarum, Chaos Marines and Ultramarines to drop a bit.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/27 19:37:10


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Whats the breakdown of those armies?

how many of them are blobstars?


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
Made in gb
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds




 mew28 wrote:
clownshoes wrote:
Auras should be nerfed down to 3 inches.

Bobby G should be dropped to 380 points and given 12 to 14 wounds.


Dropped to 380 points when he cost 360 seems legit.


Bobby G was increased to 385 in the Chapter Approved book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ERJAK wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
I didn't vote because I really don't think it's a problem considering the worst offender of blob star (Guilliman) is actually part of the weakest army in the game and even with ultimate blobstar power still can't place highly in tournaments. however - if other armies had access to this style of play - it would be overwhelming to the point it would break the game.


this is factually bullgak

Below is the current breakdown of what armies are winning events. The list combines all the top lists for 8th edition 2017 ITC season events only, taking only the top three from each Major or GT.

20 Astra Militarum
17 Chaos Space Marines
16 Ultramarines
16 Daemons
16 Ynnari
7 Orks
4 Space Marines
4 T’au Empire
4 Grey Knights
3 Officio Assassinorum
3 Blood Angels
3 Sisters of Battle
3 Death Guard
2 Genestealer Cults
2 Imperial Knights
2 Renegade Knights
2 Adeptus Mechanicus
2 Tyranids
1 Space Wolves
1 Adeptus Custodes
1 Dark Angels


You fail to factor in sample sizes, Ultramarines placed 12.4% of the time, Sisters of Battle placed 2.3% of the time. Now on the face of it, Ultramarines are over five times as likely to place as opposed to Sisters, but if there are 20 Ultramarines to every Sisters player than it would mean each Sisters player is more likely to place than an Ultramarines player.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/12/27 20:37:20


 
   
 
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