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 BoomWolf wrote:
Tazzangors are not really thousand sons. they are a really random tac-on that fills the same niche cultists and horrors already do.

I don't think a single TS player would not have much favored some more actual TS over the goatbird infestation.

Actually Tzaangors was in some of the earliest Thousand sons lore in the "Lost and the Damned" book, and this TS fan sure love having them back

Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

yet again, what "other actual 1k son units" do 1K sons NEED? they have rubric marines, rubric terminators...

not a lot else they could do, (unless oohh rubric centurions! )

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

yet again, what "other actual 1k son units" do 1K sons NEED? they have rubric marines, rubric terminators...

not a lot else they could do, (unless oohh rubric centurions! )

A sorcerer dreadnought is probably the biggest hole in the list. That could be filled if FW port over the Osiron Contemptor, though.

For example.

Actual rubrics on disks rather than the birds on disks.

Melee rubric variant (could defiantly be the same unit as the disk rubrics)

Rubric "havocs" with all soulreapers.

Ammatara psyker snipers that we still don't have models for in 30k, and would cover the fact the chaos faction still don't have actual snipers. (you can have 3 snipers in a renegades marauders, but that's the closest chaos has to actual sniper unit)

Aura elite characters.

That's just covering obvious bases, not even spending a minute thinking.

 BoomWolf wrote:
For example.

Actual rubrics on disks rather than the birds on disks.

Melee rubric variant (could defiantly be the same unit as the disk rubrics)

Rubric "havocs" with all soulreapers.

Ammatara psyker snipers that we still don't have models for in 30k, and would cover the fact the chaos faction still don't have actual snipers. (you can have 3 snipers in a renegades marauders, but that's the closest chaos has to actual sniper unit)

Aura elite characters.

That's just covering obvious bases, not even spending a minute thinking.

I feel like Rubrics flying around on discs slicing things up with khopeshes would kind of ruin the whole "shambling automaton" thing. And Rubric havocs would run into the same problem regular havocs do of completely supplanting the troop version for all practical purposes.

Ok so

Rubric praetor
Rubric centurions
Chaplain, techmarine, champion, herald would all be cool.

Rubric special weapon squad of some sort
Rubric breachers
Rubric assault marines

Rubric fast attack doesn't really fit so I'll skip

Reubric leviathan
Rubric contemptor
Librarian contemptor
Rubric havocs
Rubric rapier platform

Basically take anything at a from HH give it rubric marine rules, sorted, we can covert the rest, rubric characters should be a thing anyway, as those non Psyker characters would have been affected by it and not suddenly turned into standard rubric marines losing the armour, equipment etc. Literally no reason we can have a rubric ancient for example.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

yet again, what "other actual 1k son units" do 1K sons NEED? they have rubric marines, rubric terminators...

not a lot else they could do, (unless oohh rubric centurions! )

A sorcerer dreadnought is probably the biggest hole in the list. That could be filled if FW port over the Osiron Contemptor, though.

or even allowing 1K son hellbrutes to be updated


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Ok so

Rubric praetor
Rubric centurions
Chaplain, techmarine, champion, herald would all be cool.

Rubric special weapon squad of some sort
Rubric breachers
Rubric assault marines

Rubric fast attack doesn't really fit so I'll skip

Reubric leviathan
Rubric contemptor
Librarian contemptor
Rubric havocs
Rubric rapier platform

Basically take anything at a from HH give it rubric marine rules, sorted, we can covert the rest, rubric characters should be a thing anyway, as those non Psyker characters would have been affected by it and not suddenly turned into standard rubric marines losing the armour, equipment etc. Literally no reason we can have a rubric ancient for example.

the rubic DESTORYED the thousand sons, the modern day thousand sons is the hollow echo of it. sorcrer kings and their mindless automations, followed by their hoard of mutant followers.

I think people are of the impression the TS are a proper legion. They're just robots with a few sorcerers playing god-king over them. Most units that regular legions have (havoc squads, regular tanks, assault squads etc) make no sense for the TS.

A few things do however and would be a good addition to their range. Psychic hellbrutes would be good. Loyalists have had them forever and TS have a history of using them dating to before the HH. Chaos lost daemonically possessed vehicles, but it'd be worth bringing them back for the TS. They don't have marines to pilot them anymore so the only real way they could field vehicles would be through possession. The FW chaos index gave us the interesting flamestorm canon for the predator, maybe Ts could be get a possessed warpflame version of it as a heavy support choice?.You'd also think the TS wouldn't have given up their tradition of using robots to bolster their forces. Daemon infused remnants of the old robots would be cool for TS, giving them some long-range fire support.

What the TS shouldn't get (and I'm pretty certain they won't) is just "rubric" versions of everything. That's not how TS work or how they should work. A few thematic units could be inserted into the range but there's only so much that would make sense.

As for the Tzaangors, GW is just doing what it always did - port the daemonic units into both it's games. It makes sense financially to have the same units in both games, that way you sell more of them. So it's a given that many of the none (fantasy armour) chaos warrior units will get ported from AoS into 40k. AoS has Tzaangors of different flavours so 40k gets them too.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

Yeah, it's kinda hard to say. Coming from DG, part of me was annoyed we didn't have more actual marine variants, but at the same time it's hard to argue we really needed that many more. Plague havocs sound fun, but honestly it makes more sense to have the PM sit as halfway between normal csm and chosen/havocs. The daemon engines have also grown on me, and plague zombies are fun.

So yeah, I think I ended up preferring the way they handled the DG codex. It doesn't feel like I'm playing CSM with a plague version of every unit, which I like. Hopefully the same will be true for tsons players.

It's also worth mentioning it isn't an either or. Tsons got tzanngors because they fit their lore and were already part of a big tzneetch release for AoS. Same with the new variants. It isn't like it was either gors or unique rubricfied units, it's just the designers expanding the tsons roster with some lore friendly units based on already existing AoS models. It at least means it does expand beyond the army beyond the index list, which a lot of people didn't think would happen.

Also, let's be honest with horrors now nerfed going for heavy may be the best build tsons will have.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

I do, Tzaangors and mutants have been missing for far to long from the TS list.

 BoomWolf wrote:
But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

Considering we have the basic rubric stuff covered by now I would definitely pick Tzaangors over whatever new TS unit GW would make up (TS centurions anyone? ).

SilverAlien wrote:

It's also worth mentioning it isn't an either or. Tsons got tzanngors because they fit their lore and were already part of a big tzneetch release for AoS. Same with the new variants. It isn't like it was either gors or unique rubricfied units, it's just the designers expanding the tsons roster with some lore friendly units based on already existing AoS models. It at least means it does expand beyond the army beyond the index list, which a lot of people didn't think would happen.

They weren't just lore-friendly, Tzaangors where in the TS-list back in 1990! And now when TS finally get to be their own list again, it's natural that they would return.

SilverAlien wrote:


Yeah, it's kinda hard to say. Coming from DG, part of me was annoyed we didn't have more actual marine variants, but at the same time it's hard to argue we really needed that many more. Plague havocs sound fun, but honestly it makes more sense to have the PM sit as halfway between normal csm and chosen/havocs. The daemon engines have also grown on me, and plague zombies are fun.

So yeah, I think I ended up preferring the way they handled the DG codex. It doesn't feel like I'm playing CSM with a plague version of every unit, which I like. Hopefully the same will be true for tsons players.

One thing I have noticed is that many chaos players seems to be stuck in a 30k mindset, where the legions are just a ordinary legion with a different paintjob. The legions in 40k are not the same beast they where back in 30k and they shouldn't be, which is why I'm happy to see the return of Tzaangors and plague zombies (and hopefully pestigors in the future!).

 ulgurstasta wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

I do, Tzaangors and mutants have been missing for far to long from the TS list.

 BoomWolf wrote:
But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

Considering we have the basic rubric stuff covered by now I would definitely pick Tzaangors over whatever new TS unit GW would make up (TS centurions anyone? ).

SilverAlien wrote:

It's also worth mentioning it isn't an either or. Tsons got tzanngors because they fit their lore and were already part of a big tzneetch release for AoS. Same with the new variants. It isn't like it was either gors or unique rubricfied units, it's just the designers expanding the tsons roster with some lore friendly units based on already existing AoS models. It at least means it does expand beyond the army beyond the index list, which a lot of people didn't think would happen.

They weren't just lore-friendly, Tzaangors where in the TS-list back in 1990! And now when TS finally get to be their own list again, it's natural that they would return.

SilverAlien wrote:


Yeah, it's kinda hard to say. Coming from DG, part of me was annoyed we didn't have more actual marine variants, but at the same time it's hard to argue we really needed that many more. Plague havocs sound fun, but honestly it makes more sense to have the PM sit as halfway between normal csm and chosen/havocs. The daemon engines have also grown on me, and plague zombies are fun.

So yeah, I think I ended up preferring the way they handled the DG codex. It doesn't feel like I'm playing CSM with a plague version of every unit, which I like. Hopefully the same will be true for tsons players.

One thing I have noticed is that many chaos players seems to be stuck in a 30k mindset, where the legions are just a ordinary legion with a different paintjob. The legions in 40k are not the same beast they where back in 30k and they shouldn't be, which is why I'm happy to see the return of Tzaangors and plague zombies (and hopefully pestigors in the future!).

I definatly agree the big problem is people looking at the chaos legions in 30k and focusing on that. the legions have stewed in chaos for 10 thousand years. they're going to be VERY differant. especially the "mono god" legions. whose gods have no doubt put their "Stamp" on them.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

yet again, what "other actual 1k son units" do 1K sons NEED? they have rubric marines, rubric terminators...

not a lot else they could do, (unless oohh rubric centurions! )

A sorcerer dreadnought is probably the biggest hole in the list. That could be filled if FW port over the Osiron Contemptor, though.

or even allowing 1K son hellbrutes to be updated


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Formosa wrote:
Ok so

Rubric praetor
Rubric centurions
Chaplain, techmarine, champion, herald would all be cool.

Rubric special weapon squad of some sort
Rubric breachers
Rubric assault marines

Rubric fast attack doesn't really fit so I'll skip

Reubric leviathan
Rubric contemptor
Librarian contemptor
Rubric havocs
Rubric rapier platform

Basically take anything at a from HH give it rubric marine rules, sorted, we can covert the rest, rubric characters should be a thing anyway, as those non Psyker characters would have been affected by it and not suddenly turned into standard rubric marines losing the armour, equipment etc. Literally no reason we can have a rubric ancient for example.

the rubic DESTORYED the thousand sons, the modern day thousand sons is the hollow echo of it. sorcrer kings and their mindless automations, followed by their hoard of mutant followers.

So just as chaos threw away all there kit for "reasons" thousand sons suddenly lost all there's too, a rubric marine is utterly incapable of picking up a boating shield, incapable from using the power fist on his armour when the rubric happened, the non psychic praetor instantly lost all his equipment, the psychic legion champions vanished from reality all together, and the sorcerers forgot how to band together a load of heavy weapon rubrics into units they have been using for centuries, havoc squads and support squads.

Nope, I get what happened to thousand sons, but it stops none of these units from still existing in rubric form, if anything they have even more reason to exist as the rubrics themselves have no "whim" to discard the older equipment.

Saddest thing is all they need to do is add the unit option, we can do the rest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:

 ulgurstasta wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Yea, you love "having them back"

I do, Tzaangors and mutants have been missing for far to long from the TS list.

 BoomWolf wrote:
But given the option of a Tzaangor unit, or another ACTUAL THOUSAND SONS unit, would you even for a moment hesitate before picking the actual thousand son?

Considering we have the basic rubric stuff covered by now I would definitely pick Tzaangors over whatever new TS unit GW would make up (TS centurions anyone? ).

SilverAlien wrote:

It's also worth mentioning it isn't an either or. Tsons got tzanngors because they fit their lore and were already part of a big tzneetch release for AoS. Same with the new variants. It isn't like it was either gors or unique rubricfied units, it's just the designers expanding the tsons roster with some lore friendly units based on already existing AoS models. It at least means it does expand beyond the army beyond the index list, which a lot of people didn't think would happen.

They weren't just lore-friendly, Tzaangors where in the TS-list back in 1990! And now when TS finally get to be their own list again, it's natural that they would return.

SilverAlien wrote:


Yeah, it's kinda hard to say. Coming from DG, part of me was annoyed we didn't have more actual marine variants, but at the same time it's hard to argue we really needed that many more. Plague havocs sound fun, but honestly it makes more sense to have the PM sit as halfway between normal csm and chosen/havocs. The daemon engines have also grown on me, and plague zombies are fun.

So yeah, I think I ended up preferring the way they handled the DG codex. It doesn't feel like I'm playing CSM with a plague version of every unit, which I like. Hopefully the same will be true for tsons players.

One thing I have noticed is that many chaos players seems to be stuck in a 30k mindset, where the legions are just a ordinary legion with a different paintjob. The legions in 40k are not the same beast they where back in 30k and they shouldn't be, which is why I'm happy to see the return of Tzaangors and plague zombies (and hopefully pestigors in the future!).

I definatly agree the big problem is people looking at the chaos legions in 30k and focusing on that. the legions have stewed in chaos for 10 thousand years. they're going to be VERY differant. especially the "mono god" legions. whose gods have no doubt put their "Stamp" on them.

That's the problem, some have some haven't, thousand sons are unique as the mutating power of chaos doesn't affect them due to the rubric, sure they would have lost equipment etc. As time went on, but they are clearly capable of making more as shown by the weapons they use, literally no reason you could not have a support squad or havoc squad of them, no reason they couldn't have rubric "characters" who still use the wargear they had when the rubric happened, hell, any sorcerer could just tell any rubric marine "hold this banner mate" and bam! We have an ancient/icon bearer.

This is has gone way off topic. I think the discussion about TSons should move over to the new thread for that.