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2018/05/13 13:56:20
Subject: Re:[KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game Kickstarter 8th May
Huge update giving a much more indepth explanation of the cards types, interactions and differences between the factions Vallor and Grypharim Empire...
Wow this sucks, I was a backer of this and quite looking forward to it. I'm guessing Sans Detour is behind this, blaming everyone but themselves for how their campaign played out, refusing to acknowledge the loss of funding they incurred was pretty much entirely self inflicted... Its not been removed, its just been frozen so hopefully they can work things out.
2018/05/18 23:32:40
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game (Now with $699 ALL-IN Pledge)
Even a freeze can take time to get resolved and even if they do bring the campaign back this is likely to be a warning sign for a significant number of backers that it’s a big risk.
I would suspect Sans Detour are behind it as this dispute Was times nicely with their own campaign ending.
Not a backer myself as can’t justify the price, dislike the collectible card game aspect and don’t like the way they locked an exclusive miniature to the $700 all in pledge or exclusive addon to early birds but still hate to see this happen to any company who have put significant time and money into a project.
2018/05/19 02:52:44
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game (Now with $699 ALL-IN Pledge)
anab0lic wrote: I'm guessing Sans Detour is behind this, blaming everyone but themselves for how their campaign played out, refusing to acknowledge the loss of funding they incurred was pretty much entirely self inflicted...
You know what they say about assumptions.
Their FB page said it was 'a fan of Confrontation'. That's it.
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
2018/05/19 07:23:12
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game (Now with $699 ALL-IN Pledge)
do KS only respond to actual rights holders or would they pull based on backers reports? if so could just be an overenthusiastic fan
or being cynical now Confrontation has funded maybe SD don't feel the need to play nice
Not necessarily a valid claim.
The Elite Dangerous RPG was held up for about a month due to a spurious claim and then reinstated. Kickstarter have to do the sensible thing when a claim is made, and halt the campaign until everything is verified one way or another, so this doesn't mean the need of the project necessarily.
2018/05/19 11:18:04
Subject: Re:[KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game (Now with $699 ALL-IN Pledge)
I can´t really make any comment in relation to the validity or otherwise of any IP infringement on the part of Legends of Signum. (There is no open information at this point pointing towards what exactly is infringing (physical representation, naming etc..))
However, I feel that the timing of this intervention is fairly suspicious, right at the beginning of a KS campaign, when the vast majority of the models have been available for quite some time, another similar KS having just finished its own campaign...... It gives me the sensation that it is more designed to hurt the current campaign than resolve an IP issue.
But that´s just my personal opinion
2018/05/19 12:35:35
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Skirmish Miniature/Card game (Now with $699 ALL-IN Pledge)
Ghool wrote: I wonder why SD isn't chasing down CMON for Wrath of Kings for IP infringement then?
Because CMON isn't one of their suspects behind the "campaign of ukrainian trolls trying to sink their Confrontation Classic Kickstarter", I guess.
Just kidding. It's clear people of SD have a grudge against those behind LoS for quite some time, now. The last events certainly didn't help to leave it behind them.
2018/05/19 13:35:37
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Project paused pending resolution of IP issue
Ghool wrote: I wonder why SD isn't chasing down CMON for Wrath of Kings for IP infringement then?
My guess is that it's just to throw a monkey wrench into the KS in hopes of doing damage. Being able to prove one fantasy setting infringes on another is extremely hard so SD is probably using the fact that Cad used to sell Confrontation as an excuse to try and pop their tires at a vulnerable moment. The legal action is just the knife, not the goal.
2018/05/19 13:35:44
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Project paused pending resolution of IP issue
Ghool wrote: I wonder why SD isn't chasing down CMON for Wrath of Kings for IP infringement then?
Because CMON isn't one of their suspects behind the "campaign of ukrainian trolls trying to sink their Confrontation Classic Kickstarter", I guess.
Just kidding. It's clear people of SD have a grudge against those behind LoS for quite some time, now. The last events certainly didn't help to leave it behind them.
Taking a good look at the logo for LoS though, it would be my guess that it's that and not the models themselves.
2018/05/19 16:06:31
Subject: Re:[KS]Legends of Signum - Project paused pending resolution of IP issue
Good call on the logo, that might be it. Didn't even notice myself but it does resemble the Rackham dragon logo.
EDIT: Just saw the below on another forum that it is indeed Stellar that made the IP infringement claim. Apparently someone posted a link to it in the comments on the Confrontation KS project.
DMCA claim by AMMIRATI CHRISTOPHE for Legends of Signum: Battle for Vallor
SENDER
STELLAR LICENCING & CONSULTING Limited
[Private]Lyon, Rhône, 69003, FRSent on May 09, 2018
RECIPIENT
Kickstarter, PBC
[Private]Brooklyn, NY, 11222, US
Quote
Re: Legends of Signum: Battle for Vallor
SENT VIA: UNKNOWN
NOTICE TYPE: DMCA
1. Copyright claim #1
KIND OF WORKroject
DESCRIPTIONCopyright Description: Miniatures, names of characters, place, coat of arms, contained in the Confrontation, Aarklash and Cadwallon universes, Infringement Description: Miniatures, names of characters, place, coat of arms, contained in the Confrontation, Aarklash and Cadwallon universes Details on dmca+id870651@kickstarter.zendesk.com
Interesting battle, some of legends of signum designs are almost straight up copies with a few modified detail.
I always wondered where the line is drawn.
I guess who have the most money draws the line.
2018/05/19 23:18:02
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Project paused pending resolution of IP issue
Playing Devil´s advocate here. I have looked through the Signum main website and picked out a few examples of models which I feel are (too) close copies of Confrontation art.
The issue here is that the IP infringement seems to have been taken out against the Kickstarter campaign and none of these models which resemble Confrontation artwork form part of the KS......
So maybe Stellar Consulting have shot themselves in the foot a bit ??
2018/05/20 12:11:08
Subject: [KS]Legends of Signum - Project paused pending resolution of IP issue
There is absolutely no way that anyone can claim that these figures above are a theft of the Confrontation-IP, unless there are specific concept arts that show this exact design.
The top one is more close to Overwatch's McCree:
Spoiler:
The other ones are very standard fantasy characters, imo.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/20 12:11:57
There's also models like the Mountain Troll and the Trackers based off of Bonner's artwork that Legendarion sculpted. Those may be a bit more contentious...
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
I have been following this thread and others regarding the battle between LOS and SD. I don't really know anything about either company other than what is posted on forums and kickstarter.. I must say, I am really happy SD is going to produce Confrontation again. The miniatures are some of the best in the industry and the game was unique. I can see much of the influence of Confrontation in the LoS figures and logo. I don't know if it is enough to win an IP infringement battle, but I do know in some of these cases, if you don't defend your IP when it is infringed, it can hurt your case later. I don't really get the level of anger directed at SD and their Confrontation kickstarter. They had an earlybird bonus, stretch goals, and a great initial offering, yet they are criticized for running a terrible kickstarter. I didn't experience that. A lot of the anger at the Confrontation kickstarter had to do with speculation that backers money would be used to fight the lawsuit, but that is just pure speculation as is the idea that they won't deliver. If I were going to be angry, not that I am but, I think I would place more of the blame on LoS. After all, in their update to backers they come right out and say that SD had asked them to pay for something (presumably IP rights), and when refusals were made SD told them they would get their kickstarter shut down for IP infringement, yet LoS went ahead and did it anyway knowing this was going to happen. This should have all been hammered out before they started a kickstarter campaign. Just my two cents.
roject
