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Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists). Being a “traitor” has nothing to do with Chaos, the only connection is that most of the traitor Legions did turn to Chaos, but not all.

Alpha Legion fights for the Emperor by guiding the conflict to extend the time humanity has into order to avoid the extinction of humanity. And they do so by playing both sides against the other while running their Legion in compartmentalized guerrilla cells.

SJ

Shoot, I know next to nothing about the Alpha Legion...but maybe they thrive because they use forbidden clone tech, every Legionaire is a twin, Think the movie "TWINS" with Arnold, and Danny Devito. One hulking super soldier, one sneaky, can blend in "shadow brother".

They could well have been ensnared by Tzench, the Lord of plotting (among other things) Maybe the "Grand plan" is to clone the big E, and "save" the empire (Big E clone may end up a puppet). No way to know for sure, because nobody is cleared for that information.

Ooops, wrong thread.

Alpharius and Omegon are obviously Gork and Mork in disguise.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists).

Except for the literally zero things that support either position.

 Totalwar1402 wrote:
[
Because the notion of a James Bond Space Marine is ridiculous. They're eight foot tall super soldiers wearing bright blue power armor with dragon scales on. Why is such a flamboyant legion got a reputation for being sneaky and crafty?

See you have been hoodwinked. You think it can't be done so they got you thinking EXACTLY what they want you to do. The more excuses you make the more you are proving them correct.

You are forgetting one thing. Alpha Legion just like any other legion like Ultramarines is NOT all Space Marines. There are regular humans who are part of the legion that do the day to day duties for the chapter. So if there are going to be Alpha Legion "James Bond" spies, it wouldn't be the Space Marines.

So you don't either know the actual fluff you are saying is not being adhered to, or you are really fooled.

*edit*

Just in case you don't get the smile toungue sticking out, I am only kidding about being fooled part.

Going by the most recent codex (I think codex trumps all for lore) AL has not evaded Chaos. They have demon princes and make use of summoned demons.

The problem is the a few of the old guard wont let go of the AL are secret loyalist stuff. That may have been the case years ago.
It is not now.

AL IS CHAOS. The end.

@Table the alpha legion is a big organisation, you are not nesaserally dealing with a coherent group. Splinter groups might summon demons and have demon princes. That does not mean that all are fallen. The alpha legion are also very pragmatic. Summoning denons is just effective, that is why heretic iquisitors does it as well.

The question is rather are some cells/splinters of the alpha legion uncorupted?

Table wrote:
Going by the most recent codex (I think codex trumps all for lore) AL has not evaded Chaos. They have demon princes and make use of summoned demons.

The problem is the a few of the old guard wont let go of the AL are secret loyalist stuff. That may have been the case years ago.
It is not now.

AL IS CHAOS. The end.

If we go by the logic of "some of them are Chaos therefore they all are" then the Sisters of Battle are Chaos too. They've had a few go all in on Chaos.

The Alpha Legion do a lot of infiltrating themselves. Such as magically being able to appear on Terra. When they infiltrate Corax base. When they sneak up on an all seeing cyber assassin. They’re all wearing their power armour and aren’t shown as at a massive disadvantage if they aren’t and encounter marines. You’re telling me a whole squad of Alpha can sneak around terra without getting noticed? It really is bright blue sparkles being magically one with the shadows.

pm713 wrote:

Table wrote:
Going by the most recent codex (I think codex trumps all for lore) AL has not evaded Chaos. They have demon princes and make use of summoned demons.

The problem is the a few of the old guard wont let go of the AL are secret loyalist stuff. That may have been the case years ago.
It is not now.

AL IS CHAOS. The end.

If we go by the logic of "some of them are Chaos therefore they all are" then the Sisters of Battle are Chaos too. They've had a few go all in on Chaos.

Its not a few. Its the majority. Go read the chaos codex.

The one thing AL do well is push the limits of what an astartes can do.

A space marine is an incredibly strong man with an eidetic memory, the ability to hibernate, spit acid and eat your brains to know your secrets.The 31st/41st millennium has available matrix style(i know kung-fu) hypno indoctrination so a soldier can be taught anything and everything about combat.

It is incredibly unimaginative to give these men bolters and send them out on the front lines to get hit by mass reactive rounds and plasmabursts.

An army of batmen/captains america is capable of much much more than ultraviolence and the nightlords, Alphas and ravenguard are the only ones who seem to understand this- with the exception of the wizard legion.

 Niiai wrote:
@Table the alpha legion is a big organisation, you are not nesaserally dealing with a coherent group. Splinter groups might summon demons and have demon princes. That does not mean that all are fallen. The alpha legion are also very pragmatic. Summoning denons is just effective, that is why heretic iquisitors does it as well.

The question is rather are some cells/splinters of the alpha legion uncorupted?

Yes it is a big legion. They do operate under cells but for the same goal. The hydra is fitting. Many heads (cells) and one body (the cause...in this instance destroying the empire). And its not just summoning demons. Its summoning metric arse tons of them to destroy whole planets.

Un corrupted chapters may indeed exist. But they are the minority in the extreme.

And this part I don't mean to be snarky (or any part really) but a lot of you need to go read the 8th edition Heretic Astartes codex. It will inform you just how much the legion has fallen into chaos.

Should have skipped the whole Kabal cabal? Thing and just went with: instead of culling half their Loyalist members in the chapter, they just convinced them the other half are Loyalists too. "No, no Brother Alf, burning down that promethium factory is For the Emperor!".

Table wrote:

pm713 wrote:

Table wrote:
Going by the most recent codex (I think codex trumps all for lore) AL has not evaded Chaos. They have demon princes and make use of summoned demons.

The problem is the a few of the old guard wont let go of the AL are secret loyalist stuff. That may have been the case years ago.
It is not now.

AL IS CHAOS. The end.

If we go by the logic of "some of them are Chaos therefore they all are" then the Sisters of Battle are Chaos too. They've had a few go all in on Chaos.

Its not a few. Its the majority. Go read the chaos codex.

Pretty sure that only a few go around summoning demons. Which was my point.

 =Angel= wrote:
The one thing AL do well is push the limits of what an astartes can do.

A space marine is an incredibly strong man with an eidetic memory, the ability to hibernate, spit acid and eat your brains to know your secrets.The 31st/41st millennium has available matrix style(i know kung-fu) hypno indoctrination so a soldier can be taught anything and everything about combat.

It is incredibly unimaginative to give these men bolters and send them out on the front lines to get hit by mass reactive rounds and plasmabursts.

An army of batmen/captains america is capable of much much more than ultraviolence and the nightlords, Alphas and ravenguard are the only ones who seem to understand this- with the exception of the wizard legion.

Pfft the imperium has an army of wolverines in the wolves that's why they'll always win.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists).

Except for the literally zero things that support either position.

Gav Thorpe said it himself, and he write the Dark Angel novels.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists).

Except for the literally zero things that support either position.

Gav Thorpe said it himself, and he write the Dark Angel novels.

SJ

This is what I thought too. Granted it's a conspiracy theory but it makes sense in a twisted sort of way. The Dark Angels are always keen to hide their "secret" and that never really gets explained. People assume that their "secret" is that some Dark Angels fell to chaos in the heresy, but that seems so... mundane... for that to be the case. Plenty of loyal legions had some of their astartes join Horus (White Scars, and Raven Guard in particular) AND have this as a matter of public record and nobody hates on them.

Is it possible that their secret is that they are actually chaos worshippers posing as loyal Imperials to secretly undermine the Imperium from within, and that the Fallen are secretly the true loyalist Dark Angels?

w1zard wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists).

Except for the literally zero things that support either position.

Gav Thorpe said it himself, and he write the Dark Angel novels.

SJ

This is what I thought too. Granted it's a conspiracy theory but it makes sense in a twisted sort of way. The Dark Angels are always keen to hide their "secret" and that never really gets explained. People assume that their "secret" is that some Dark Angels fell to chaos in the heresy, but that seems so... mundane... for that to be the case. Plenty of loyal legions had some of their astartes join Horus (White Scars, and Raven Guard in particular) AND have this as a matter of public record and nobody hates on them.

Is it possible that their secret is that they are actually chaos worshippers posing as loyal Imperials to secretly undermine the Imperium from within, and that the Fallen are secretly the true loyalist Dark Angels?

No, Fallen belongs definately chaos. I do not know what Cypher is, but Fallen Angels are fallen. Dark Angels itself are not loyal to imperium anymore.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Should have skipped the whole Kabal cabal? Thing and just went with: instead of culling half their Loyalist members in the chapter, they just convinced them the other half are Loyalists too. "No, no Brother Alf, burning down that promethium factory is For the Emperor!".

They killed half their legion? I thought they pretty much all went the same general direction?

hobojebus wrote:

 =Angel= wrote:
The one thing AL do well is push the limits of what an astartes can do.

A space marine is an incredibly strong man with an eidetic memory, the ability to hibernate, spit acid and eat your brains to know your secrets.The 31st/41st millennium has available matrix style(i know kung-fu) hypno indoctrination so a soldier can be taught anything and everything about combat.

It is incredibly unimaginative to give these men bolters and send them out on the front lines to get hit by mass reactive rounds and plasmabursts.

An army of batmen/captains america is capable of much much more than ultraviolence and the nightlords, Alphas and ravenguard are the only ones who seem to understand this- with the exception of the wizard legion.

Pfft the imperium has an army of wolverines in the wolves that's why they'll always win.

A single batman can take several wolverines and you know it bub.

w1zard wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Alpha Legion are loyalists hiding as traitors (much like Dark Angels are traitors hiding as loyalists).

Except for the literally zero things that support either position.

Gav Thorpe said it himself, and he write the Dark Angel novels.

SJ

This is what I thought too. Granted it's a conspiracy theory but it makes sense in a twisted sort of way. The Dark Angels are always keen to hide their "secret" and that never really gets explained. People assume that their "secret" is that some Dark Angels fell to chaos in the heresy, but that seems so... mundane... for that to be the case. Plenty of loyal legions had some of their astartes join Horus (White Scars, and Raven Guard in particular) AND have this as a matter of public record and nobody hates on them.

Is it possible that their secret is that they are actually chaos worshippers posing as loyal Imperials to secretly undermine the Imperium from within, and that the Fallen are secretly the true loyalist Dark Angels?

No it's not. Dark Angels are loyalists who in no way worship Chaos. That's pretty clear.

pm713 wrote:
No it's not. Dark Angels are loyalists who in no way worship Chaos. That's pretty clear.

Yeah I know, but the conspiracy theory has a lot of people supporting it, including apparently Gav Thorpe who writes a lot of dark angels lore.

w1zard wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No it's not. Dark Angels are loyalists who in no way worship Chaos. That's pretty clear.

Yeah I know, but the conspiracy theory has a lot of people supporting it, including apparently Gav Thorpe who writes a lot of dark angels lore.

Fallen are true loyalists. Dark angels are traitors in disguise.

The reason why DA's hunt fallens are because they know the truth.

w1zard wrote:

pm713 wrote:
No it's not. Dark Angels are loyalists who in no way worship Chaos. That's pretty clear.

Yeah I know, but the conspiracy theory has a lot of people supporting it, including apparently Gav Thorpe who writes a lot of dark angels lore.

But the actual lore is incredibly clear about how untrue that is. It's like me talking about how the Eldar are going to end the setting by killing everyone else off, I can talk it up as much as I like but it's just not canon.

The never-ending struggle with writing out the lore for a universe is that, first, you're going to get substandard stuff, and second, no matter what details you reveal, someone isn't going to like it, because it conflicts with what they envisioned.

The *idea* of Alpha Legion is neat, and a good wildcard for GW to have in their pocket - what if a traitor legion didn't betray the Emperor after all? And just like every other major mystery, it becomes a lot less interesting the moment it's resolved - and less interesting the more they write about it.

So what do people think about the Omeagon being Janus theory?

I think it's a pretty cool theory, the idea of there being a evil brother and a good brother having a civil war within their own legion

 fraser1191 wrote:
So what do people think about the Omeagon being Janus theory?

I think it's a pretty cool theory, the idea of there being a evil brother and a good brother having a civil war within their own legion

It was cool until they revealed who Janus was. Now? Probably would have been cooler.

SJ