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The entire concept of Primaris is real-life intruding into fluff, so I shall continue to fart on them from a great height.

GW is like its fanbase; un-used to the real world and prone to over-reaction upon contact.

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The entire concept of Primaris is real-life intruding into fluff, so I shall continue to fart on them from a great height.

GW is like its fanbase; un-used to the real world and prone to over-reaction upon contact.

Those two statements appear to contradict each other.

How is the concept of Primaris like real life at all?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
How is the concept of Primaris like real life at all?

They're like the monster trucks of Space Marines: big, impressive looking and sounding, but not all that (currently) practical?

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Little point in complaining...all of the things you'd want in a marine force will eventually appear in a new Primaris unit.

No they probably won't. It's clear that GW wants to prune options from the game and cut choices. Otherwise why does the Primaris characters have essentially zero options compared to older marine choices and the current Primaris kits are nearly as bad. Hell as much as I love kill team, they have pretty much the same if it's not included in on specific box it's no longer an option BS going on.

That's not what I was addressing, but I agree with your secondary point. It's why I won't be playing any new armies etc. that GW produces...but it's also obvious that Primaris are the new marine line, and thus players can expect a shedload of new kits. Doesn't mean you'll have a one-for-one replacement for older models.

While I agree that the new "no model, no options" is a garbage idea and $30 plastic single-sprue characters are gak...that seems best handled in another thread. Also, it's worth noting (in the context of this thread) you probably won't get chainswords, but something better and more Primaris-esque....just to put 3rd party bit companies under more pressure.

 Elbows wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Little point in complaining...all of the things you'd want in a marine force will eventually appear in a new Primaris unit.

No they probably won't. It's clear that GW wants to prune options from the game and cut choices. Otherwise why does the Primaris characters have essentially zero options compared to older marine choices and the current Primaris kits are nearly as bad. Hell as much as I love kill team, they have pretty much the same if it's not included in on specific box it's no longer an option BS going on.

That's not what I was addressing, but I agree with your secondary point. It's why I won't be playing any new armies etc. that GW produces...but it's also obvious that Primaris are the new marine line, and thus players can expect a shedload of new kits. Doesn't mean you'll have a one-for-one replacement for older models.

While I agree that the new "no model, no options" is a garbage idea and $30 plastic single-sprue characters are gak...that seems best handled in another thread. Also, it's worth noting (in the context of this thread) you probably won't get chainswords, but something better and more Primaris-esque....just to put 3rd party bit companies under more pressure.

Chainsaw maces?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Little point in complaining...all of the things you'd want in a marine force will eventually appear in a new Primaris unit.

No they probably won't. It's clear that GW wants to prune options from the game and cut choices. Otherwise why does the Primaris characters have essentially zero options compared to older marine choices and the current Primaris kits are nearly as bad. Hell as much as I love kill team, they have pretty much the same if it's not included in on specific box it's no longer an option BS going on.

That's not what I was addressing, but I agree with your secondary point. It's why I won't be playing any new armies etc. that GW produces...but it's also obvious that Primaris are the new marine line, and thus players can expect a shedload of new kits. Doesn't mean you'll have a one-for-one replacement for older models.

While I agree that the new "no model, no options" is a garbage idea and $30 plastic single-sprue characters are gak...that seems best handled in another thread. Also, it's worth noting (in the context of this thread) you probably won't get chainswords, but something better and more Primaris-esque....just to put 3rd party bit companies under more pressure.

Chainsaw maces?

The upgrade for my dark apostle I never knew I wanted...

You joke...but yes...probably. Something that "different".

DrGiggles wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
The upgrade for my dark apostle I never knew I wanted...

I agree, it somehow needs to be a thing now.

Elbows wrote:You joke...but yes...probably. Something that "different".

We only think I'm joking because GW hasn't done it yet.

 Elbows wrote:
You joke...but yes...probably. Something that "different".

Yeah, that's my thinking. We'll get upgrades, but they'll be new things. Along the lines of Boltstorm and Fragstorm and Ironhale and all these new phrases but something melee

Stux wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
The entire concept of Primaris is real-life intruding into fluff, so I shall continue to fart on them from a great height.

GW is like its fanbase; un-used to the real world and prone to over-reaction upon contact.

Those two statements appear to contradict each other.

How so?

Almost everything GW has done in recent years is a direct result of the Chapterhouse debacle. That is the 'real-life' intruding into the fluff. GW massively over-reacted and stopped producing rules for anything that didn't have an explicit model. There is a kit you can make a Herald of Slaanesh on Steed or Seeker/Exalted Chariot from, but it isn't labelled as such so none are in the Codex, for example. The term 'Space Marine' has already begun to be excised from the setting. Chaos Space Marines are now Heretic Astartes. Imperial Guard has gone. Eldar have gone. I'm honestly super-surprised that Orks appear to have survived as Orks, for now. Models are now largely monopose and deliberately difficult to convert to deter third-party bits.

Primaris were introduced with the primary purpose of being Space Marines with a name that is more easily protected at law.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:How is the concept of Primaris like real life at all?

It's not, you misunderstand. See above.

Because such an emotional reaction is disproportionate to a miniatures company releasing some new miniatures. An over reaction I would say.

Assuming, without deciding, that slight though comically over-stated derision is in fact an "emotional" response, I am, of course, a member of GW's fanbase...

Come over to the deathwatch. All the sargents can take chainswords *and* their bolt rifles don't suck.

It's really the only option for Primaris anyway until CA 2019

 ChargerIIC wrote:
Come over to the deathwatch. All the sargents can take chainswords *and* their bolt rifles don't suck.

It's really the only option for Primaris anyway until CA 2019

Depends really. We could get something Primaris specific like they did army special rules in CA 2017.

I think they should have gone with chainswords instead of combat knifes for reavers, mechanicly it would have been the same, but I think people would have responded better to them if they had chainswords. (that and I can't think of anyting more terrifying from a close combat POV then a chain sword)

Tbh I kinda hope Chaos never gets Primaris for this reason. Most of their army is SUPER flexible, to the point that almost half the codex can be kitted out for either range or melee.

secretForge wrote:
If Primaris had:

1. A standard set of CCW / Ranged upgrades that could be bought for sergeants, captains and lieutenants.

2. A similar list of items that could be bought for a veteran squad.

3. Access to storm shields

4. Some Form of terminator equivalent (No aggressors do not cut it)

5. Some Form of fast assault capable unit, jump packs or jet bikes are fine.

6. Multiple Heavy / Special Weapon options to form upgrades for intercessors, hellblasters and their veteran units.

7. Hell yes mother Fking chainswords!

I would immediately get a Primaris army.

This could all be achieved with 2-3 boxed sets.

1. 'specialist' Box, which is litterally just upgrade components for other boxes.

2. Termiators equivelent box

3. (Optional if youre going jet bikes and arent just upgrading inceptors).

I've said this before and I'll probably say it again, Primaris are just a few tweeks away from having all the tools they need.

Intercessors: bump their Krak grenades to S7, AP 2, D3. Bump their Frag grenades to S4. Bump the Stalker Bolt Rifle to S5. That's more than enough extra firepower to put them over the line into good.

The artificial segregation of transports is kinda dumb, but the really dumb thing is not letting Primaris ride in Stormravens since it's basically a transport helecopter and that seems fully in line with what I'd expect for them. Which brings me to...

Reivers: Once they're allowed to ride in Stormravens, letting them use their grapnels to disembark from one after it moves is the next logical step. If Orguns can figure out how to bail out of a Valkyrie after it moves then there is zero reason a Reiver shouldn't be able to do it better, and it would decisively address their issues with mobility. Even barring changes to the Stormraver, the Repulsor is in more or less the same slot and Reivers should be able to grapnel out of those things on the move too.

(Speaking of the Stormraven, it should really be able to carry 20 marines with Termies and Primaris counting for 2, Centurions counting for 3, and a Dreadnaught counting for 8, rather than the weird 12 marines and a Dreadnaught setup it has now.)

Redemptor: The Onslaught Gattling Cannon and it's heavy variant are not bad guns, but the Redemptor is big enough to be bordering on an LoW and it really needs to hit harder at range. Swapping the Onslaught for a regular Assault Cannon (which is honestly not any bigger on the Terminators), add the option to take that turret missle pod as a Centurion Missle Launcher, and letting them shrug off the mortal wounds from the Marcro Plasma Blaster some of the time (or even just adding the Rhino's Self Repair rule) would help them immensely.

Aggressors: I see no particular reason that the Fragstorm launcher should be the only thing that particular piece of gear could represent. They could easily have any number of other ammo types to make them more flexible and it's not like it's any smaller than the afore mentioned Centurion Missile Launcher. I see no particular reason that the Flame Gauntlet version shouldn't have access to the grenade launcher or that the Boltstorm Gauntlet version shouldn't be able to drop it to save points. Of course, I also see no sane reason the Flame Gauntlet equiped Aggressors should be more expensive than the Boltstorm variant.

None of that requires adding a single thing to the Primaris range, just tweaking a few stats and adding a rule here and there, but the end result is a Primaris line that is considerably more flexible.

Honorary mention, Centurions: I can't help thinking of them as the evolved version of Aggressors, but they really need to be T6 and 4 wounds for their cost. And maybe pick up a 5++ save too. I sincerely hope that if they do start retiring the original Marine line they add the Primaris keyword to the Centurions and keep them around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
I think they should have gone with chainswords instead of combat knifes for reavers, mechanicly it would have been the same, but I think people would have responded better to them if they had chainswords. (that and I can't think of anyting more terrifying from a close combat POV then a chain sword)

Much as I actually kind of like the Reivers as-is, I cannot disagree with this.

fraser1191 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Tacticals don't get chainswords, though, yes? [Unless you're Space Wolves]

Also, primaris already have an extra attack baked into their profile.

I mean, a free extra melee attack wouldn't be turned down, but like, if I had to trade a Bolt Rifle for it or if I had to pay points for it I'd probably pass. A free chainsword the way Grey Hunters can take them wouldn't be bad, though.

So here's the thing, Grey hunters in the index were 14ppm while index tacticals were 13. Currently codex tacticals are 13 and with the Space wolf codex hunters dropped to 13. Also in Kill team tacticals are 12ppm.

I'm willing to put money on tacticals being 12ppm in CA with Grey hunters being 13 while being able to take a "free" chainsword

Yeah, that seems like a good bet.

I hope so, I play both vanilla Marines and Space Wolves, but I think a chain sword for free would be bad for space wolves. if they wanna keep em at 13 pointsd per marine, they could instead make EVERY Space marine able to take a chainsword. it'd change how marines played, making them suddenly much more melee agressive, which IMHO would make them feel more like what they're supposed to feel like

BrianDavion wrote:
I hope so, I play both vanilla Marines and Space Wolves, but I think a chain sword for free would be bad for space wolves. if they wanna keep em at 13 pointsd per marine, they could instead make EVERY Space marine able to take a chainsword. it'd change how marines played, making them suddenly much more melee agressive, which IMHO would make them feel more like what they're supposed to feel like

Or GW could give basic Marines their Combat Knives back and accomplish the same thing without making us all perform surgery on every Marine in our collections.

They'd have to add something to or lower the price of Assault Marines, Vanguard Veterans, Combat Knife Scouts, and Reivers too, they're priced to reflect that extra attack.

 Crimson wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Little point in complaining...all of the things you'd want in a marine force will eventually appear in a new Primaris unit.

(I really do want it now.)

The other concern is that they might actually never get a Primaris alternative, with the unit type just going the way of the Squat.

BrianDavion wrote:
I hope so, I play both vanilla Marines and Space Wolves, but I think a chain sword for free would be bad for space wolves. if they wanna keep em at 13 pointsd per marine, they could instead make EVERY Space marine able to take a chainsword. it'd change how marines played, making them suddenly much more melee agressive, which IMHO would make them feel more like what they're supposed to feel like

If regular Marines go to 12 points but Grey Hunters stay at 13 but get access to Chainswords (which cost 0) then it's not really "free'.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I hope so, I play both vanilla Marines and Space Wolves, but I think a chain sword for free would be bad for space wolves. if they wanna keep em at 13 pointsd per marine, they could instead make EVERY Space marine able to take a chainsword. it'd change how marines played, making them suddenly much more melee agressive, which IMHO would make them feel more like what they're supposed to feel like

If regular Marines go to 12 points but Grey Hunters stay at 13 but get access to Chainswords (which cost 0) then it's not really "free'.

ohh for sure, I mean if they don't want to lower the cost of basic marines for some reason, giving them chain swords as well would be fine too. I admit when I got into 40k I was sad that it was a space wolf and chaos only thing