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Doesn't help at official events and stuff people go to a lot.

 deviantduck wrote:
Why are people losing their minds over the cost of CA? It's a drop in the bucket for this hobby.

Its rewarding anti consumer business practices. If it has points decreases then it could be the tabletop equivalent of pay to win

Still waiting on some robust terrain and cover mechanics instead of nearly non existent mess they came up with for 8th.

 Vankraken wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Why are people losing their minds over the cost of CA? It's a drop in the bucket for this hobby.

Its rewarding anti consumer business practices. If it has points decreases then it could be the tabletop equivalent of pay to win

Still waiting on some robust terrain and cover mechanics instead of nearly non existent mess they came up with for 8th.

100% this.

If they are making amendments to points for codices you have already bought then it must be free!

I have no qualms about CA existing as a place for new missions and new playstyles such as city fight, apocalypse etc. but the inclusion of the points makes it a theoretical must have cash grab from the existing player base.

Thank the powers that be for battlescribe. I bought last years one and the missions were good but not enough to justify the cost. I know its not a lot but its like an annual tax to play the game.

 Nithaniel wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
Why are people losing their minds over the cost of CA? It's a drop in the bucket for this hobby.

Its rewarding anti consumer business practices. If it has points decreases then it could be the tabletop equivalent of pay to win

Still waiting on some robust terrain and cover mechanics instead of nearly non existent mess they came up with for 8th.

100% this.

If they are making amendments to points for codices you have already bought then it must be free!

I have no qualms about CA existing as a place for new missions and new playstyles such as city fight, apocalypse etc. but the inclusion of the points makes it a theoretical must have cash grab from the existing player base.

Thank the powers that be for battlescribe. I bought last years one and the missions were good but not enough to justify the cost. I know its not a lot but its like an annual tax to play the game.

Its an annual tax to not have the stagnant mess that the other editions were.

yes but the point is it shouldn't be an annual tax to not have the stagnant mess. Basic amendments to the core rules should be free which they are in the FAQ and basic amendments to the codices (points changes) should also be free.

The campaign books I'm all for and with the previews they just put up today, vigilus is now looking like a must have purchase for competitive players. The number of books needed will keep increasing.

I don't mind CA as long as they publish all the FAQs and modifications from the regular books.

It is nice to have all of that in one spot, updated and proofread (hopefully).

The campaign books are a problem. They should be for narrative games only or beta until they can be codified into the yearly CA.

I already have to lug too much junk around as is. I don't want to have to bring every supplement to tourney games to support what I'm doing and explain to other players how they are getting the rules that they downloaded wrong.

Keep the narrative in narrative and matched/org play to CA and I'd be okay with it. The way they are doing it now seems like a cash grab, mandatory tax to competitive players and just a general inconvenience.

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
only if those rules are optional and not needed for the core game system.

If you want to get technical, all rules are "optional". You can choose to not play with Vigilus rules, and tournaments can choose to now allow them.

I'll never complain about the game being updated and balanced. Would I love free online rules that get updated into a single file
yes, will it ever happen, most likely... no

So I'm very happy with these updates. In the future id like to see them maybe have an online subscription model where for an x amount per month fee you get access to all the rules/ updates. I know that whatever they do though they need to make money on it and I'm fine with that even if it means having a codex CA with me.

Drink up me hearties yo ho

Okay, this article pisses me off big time: https://www.warhamme...omepage-post-4/

This buff to the wartrike looks suspiciously like something that should be in the freaking codex and was removed! Would honestly answers the biggest question the community had about why the new stuff lacked any buffs that were focused on them in warlord traits and relic. Because they want us to buy this gak!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Techpriestsupport wrote:
only if those rules are optional and not needed for the core game system.

If you want to get technical, all rules are "optional". You can choose to not play with Vigilus rules, and tournaments can choose to now allow them.

At this point we might as well say Knights are now banned and optional.... or space marines are banned from all tournaments... If GW says it's part of the main game, it;s part of the main game.

Looking forward to them. Elbows is right... when it comes to the need (or not) of having to actually buy these books, it's blindingly obvious that these are just nice optional extras. The constant criticism levelled at GW that "I need to buy 7000 books to keep up to date!" is just wrong.

My major concern is that we will find the rule set distributed over the FAQs/Errata and Chapter Approved.
Then it would be better to start a new ed.

I would like to see CA become a more purely rules-update focused book, with the odd campaign book released separately.

Ideally, CA would contain the entire suite of core and advanced rules, updated with all latest FAQ's considered. Add in the points changes, the usual new core missions, even a brief lore section to clarify the "state of the galaxy" - and that's a book I'd want to buy every year.

 Hollow wrote:
Looking forward to them. Elbows is right... when it comes to the need (or not) of having to actually buy these books, it's blindingly obvious that these are just nice optional extras. The constant criticism levelled at GW that "I need to buy 7000 books to keep up to date!" is just wrong.

Yes and no. At a minimum to play an army you need the core rulebook (shared between players), a codex, an FAQ and CA. That's four sources just for the basics. If you have older models or FW, that's at least 2 to 3 more books. Then you add in campaign supplements, which are "optional" but not having them leaves your army with incomplete rules and a possible competitive disadvantage. We are basically on the road to 7th edition level of book bloat.

And to your response I'd also say yes and no.

I've been playing 8th since it started. I do not own the main rulebook (though I have access to a PDF if I so desire). I do not own CA, and I have downloaded the FAQ for free. I do, however, own a codex. I borrow friends copies of Chapter Approved and jot down the points changes, and I incorporate FAQs into my cheat-sheets I've made for my armies. I don't need the big rule book because it offers nothing of genuine use outside of the basic rules. I have a cheat sheet for the rules though, so anything I need is on a simple laminated sheet. I do own the Open War deck (and have subsequently created my own expanded version).

When I go to a game of 40K, I bring two laminated sheets (my cheat sheets) and I have my codex on hand if someone wants to view an entry in the codex. All of the FAQ and CA changes are incorporated into my cheat sheet which took me an hour or two to assemble. I update it a couple times a year when new information comes out. I'm not lugging books around. If a rules discussion comes up we'll make an ameable agreement or if somebody around has a rulebook handy - cool. Admittedly I would buy a smaller simpler rulebook if one were available and just toss it in my bag with the other stuff.

Nothing that I've done is difficult or expensive. Again, I lay a lot of blame on gamers being lazy. 8th's design choices and the way they are changing the game frequently is a mess - useful, and better for the game, but a mess. However, it's nothing you can't fix yourself with an hour or two on excel or word.

I'm perfectly fine with campaign books and there being extra rules in them. Granted it appears that for Orks they could have rolled it into the codex since they are spaced so close together but it makes sense this way. Seeing as the campaign book adds a unique new mechanic. What I am absolutely pissed about however is looted wagons being in CA not the codex. There is absolutely no reason for them to be there except for a cynical attempt at making more money of Ork players. I for one won't be buying it, I'll just leech the rules from a friend.
.

 Elbows wrote:
And to your response I'd also say yes and no.

I've been playing 8th since it started. I do not own the main rulebook (though I have access to a PDF if I so desire). I do not own CA, and I have downloaded the FAQ for free. I do, however, own a codex. I borrow friends copies of Chapter Approved and jot down the points changes, and I incorporate FAQs into my cheat-sheets I've made for my armies. I don't need the big rule book because it offers nothing of genuine use outside of the basic rules. I have a cheat sheet for the rules though, so anything I need is on a simple laminated sheet. I do own the Open War deck (and have subsequently created my own expanded version).

When I go to a game of 40K, I bring two laminated sheets (my cheat sheets) and I have my codex on hand if someone wants to view an entry in the codex. All of the FAQ and CA changes are incorporated into my cheat sheet which took me an hour or two to assemble. I update it a couple times a year when new information comes out. I'm not lugging books around. If a rules discussion comes up we'll make an ameable agreement or if somebody around has a rulebook handy - cool. Admittedly I would buy a smaller simpler rulebook if one were available and just toss it in my bag with the other stuff.

Nothing that I've done is difficult or expensive. Again, I lay a lot of blame on gamers being lazy. 8th's design choices and the way they are changing the game frequently is a mess - useful, and better for the game, but a mess. However, it's nothing you can't fix yourself with an hour or two on excel or word.

Even if you don't own them though, my point still stands. You might not have personally bought CA but you still needed access to it. GW's half assed approx to models they don't make exact models for means that in edition to my codex, I'm stuck with the index as well as my codex. That's to play just space marines. If i'm playing a competitive IOM i'm probably having to use 2 to 3 codex, possible two to three indexes, FAQs for all of the above and toss in CA. That's a lot of books, even if you take the time with cheat sheets and other time saving material.

I'm just super pissed I spent like £100+ last month on Orks and now one of the new HQ's (Who was missing any relic in the codex) is suddenly given another relic in another book.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And to your response I'd also say yes and no.

I've been playing 8th since it started. I do not own the main rulebook (though I have access to a PDF if I so desire). I do not own CA, and I have downloaded the FAQ for free. I do, however, own a codex. I borrow friends copies of Chapter Approved and jot down the points changes, and I incorporate FAQs into my cheat-sheets I've made for my armies. I don't need the big rule book because it offers nothing of genuine use outside of the basic rules. I have a cheat sheet for the rules though, so anything I need is on a simple laminated sheet. I do own the Open War deck (and have subsequently created my own expanded version).

When I go to a game of 40K, I bring two laminated sheets (my cheat sheets) and I have my codex on hand if someone wants to view an entry in the codex. All of the FAQ and CA changes are incorporated into my cheat sheet which took me an hour or two to assemble. I update it a couple times a year when new information comes out. I'm not lugging books around. If a rules discussion comes up we'll make an ameable agreement or if somebody around has a rulebook handy - cool. Admittedly I would buy a smaller simpler rulebook if one were available and just toss it in my bag with the other stuff.

Nothing that I've done is difficult or expensive. Again, I lay a lot of blame on gamers being lazy. 8th's design choices and the way they are changing the game frequently is a mess - useful, and better for the game, but a mess. However, it's nothing you can't fix yourself with an hour or two on excel or word.

Even if you don't own them though, my point still stands. You might not have personally bought CA but you still needed access to it. GW's half assed approx to models they don't make exact models for means that in edition to my codex, I'm stuck with the index as well as my codex. That's to play just space marines. If i'm playing a competitive IOM i'm probably having to use 2 to 3 codex, possible two to three indexes, FAQs for all of the above and toss in CA. That's a lot of books, even if you take the time with cheat sheets and other time saving material.

Access to a lot of books is simple...and different than having to lug them around, or purchase all of them. People are creating a fake outrage over something that has very little impact on them.

 Elbows wrote:

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
And to your response I'd also say yes and no.

I've been playing 8th since it started. I do not own the main rulebook (though I have access to a PDF if I so desire). I do not own CA, and I have downloaded the FAQ for free. I do, however, own a codex. I borrow friends copies of Chapter Approved and jot down the points changes, and I incorporate FAQs into my cheat-sheets I've made for my armies. I don't need the big rule book because it offers nothing of genuine use outside of the basic rules. I have a cheat sheet for the rules though, so anything I need is on a simple laminated sheet. I do own the Open War deck (and have subsequently created my own expanded version).

When I go to a game of 40K, I bring two laminated sheets (my cheat sheets) and I have my codex on hand if someone wants to view an entry in the codex. All of the FAQ and CA changes are incorporated into my cheat sheet which took me an hour or two to assemble. I update it a couple times a year when new information comes out. I'm not lugging books around. If a rules discussion comes up we'll make an ameable agreement or if somebody around has a rulebook handy - cool. Admittedly I would buy a smaller simpler rulebook if one were available and just toss it in my bag with the other stuff.

Nothing that I've done is difficult or expensive. Again, I lay a lot of blame on gamers being lazy. 8th's design choices and the way they are changing the game frequently is a mess - useful, and better for the game, but a mess. However, it's nothing you can't fix yourself with an hour or two on excel or word.

Even if you don't own them though, my point still stands. You might not have personally bought CA but you still needed access to it. GW's half assed approx to models they don't make exact models for means that in edition to my codex, I'm stuck with the index as well as my codex. That's to play just space marines. If i'm playing a competitive IOM i'm probably having to use 2 to 3 codex, possible two to three indexes, FAQs for all of the above and toss in CA. That's a lot of books, even if you take the time with cheat sheets and other time saving material.

Access to a lot of books is simple...and different than having to lug them around, or purchase all of them. People are creating a fake outrage over something that has very little impact on them.

Has a lot of impact on me who games at lots of different places and can't just use their book all the time... and it especially affects people in a lot of GW's who refuse to let us use store coppies (at least in our area).

Do they really deny you using a copy of the rules tho? Finding one for point changes/vigilus detachments should be trivial in this day and age.

 Castozor wrote:
Do they really deny you using a copy of the rules tho? Finding one for point changes/vigilus detachments should be trivial in this day and age.

Dude, he gave me a dirty look and a comment for using battle scribe while I had the codex in front of me as well.