Talking Tanks: Carnodons and Malcadors in 40k

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**Agamemnon2**

I'm trying to cut them some slack, since I'm no longer a player of their games, but it's sometimes rather difficult.

That being said, I love the Malcador and Carnodon as designs, and should buy some for my collection. My Malc Defender is a beloved piece in my display case, and in its day, was an enjoyable albeit lackluster tank on Apocalypse tables (trundling forward spraying heavy bolter shells in all directions was just fun).

**Inquisitor Lord Katherine**

Pyroalchi wrote:
A last word on the whole "army composition" stuff: Of course I can build whatever I like. It's just that I'm new to Warhammer and I really want to build a fluff consistend army. Up until now I thought (!) including artillery in a light mobile regiment would not be background consistent. Therefore I really value your input and the Org Chart you provided, as well as your examples for what instances could lead to a pure light-tank force on the table since it provides great insight to enjoy expanding my range of models and still immerse in the story. Especially since I really like all kind of missile launchers and the Manticore looks really great.

Back to the topic at hand: as stated in other posts I have not played yet, since I still building my army and lack experience, but what I really find interesting that there seem to be as many people saying the Leman Russ is average/below average as there are people saying the LR and the rest of the IG motor pool is too strong.
What you said regarding comparing the Autocannon/Volkite Carnodon to a more ground focussed Hydra or a "LOS needed" Basilisk also sounds compelling.

Yet I somehow have still not given up on the Lascannon Carnodon. The Lascannon is an effective anti-tank weapon (even if the buffed Demolisher now seems much stronger for the same price), but it seems to me that most platforms you can take them on are either flimsy (HWS, Command/Infantry/Veteran Squads), quite expensive (Malcador Annihilator) or have better loadout options (LR Conquerer, Battletank, Demolisher). Leaving (in my personal opinion) the Tauros Venator (OOP), Sentinels and Carnodons. Out of this lot, the Carnodon is the cheapest/Lascannon and sturdier. But I guess I will just have to collect some experience over time to see, if this assumption stands the test of reality

There's two kinds of Leman Russ: The regular Heavy Support version, which is generally average to outright terrible depending on loadout and Regiment, and the HQ version for 20 points more, which is BS3+ and can issue Tank Orders to friendly LEMAN RUSS units [all of them are more effective when self-buffing, so read that as a changeable self-buff each turn] which ranged from competitive to outright terrible depending on the loadout. [Spoiler alert: Vanquishers and anything with the Vanquisher Gun are outright terrible]. You don't have to give up on the Lascannon Carnodon, I just don't think it's going to be a chart-topping option, since it's for the most part comparable with an existing average-below-average choice. But sometimes, if you're not planning to go up against Knights and IH Repulsor guncastles, average is all you need.

The IG motor pool as a whole is certainly "not too strong". Especially looking at what actually strong motor pools look like.

As far as seeking Lascannons go, the requirement you're trying to fill is "Antitank Capability", not "Lascannons". Lascannons are a solution to "Needs Antitank Capability", but aren't the only solution so constraining your solution space to units with lascannons might end up limiting you to inferior options.

**OldMate**

carnodon malcador etc are not competitive figured that already. Wasn't asking if they were, they're interesting and I wanted to see how they sat, see any interesting tactics or ideas around their use.

Really thought Forgewrold would have buffed the modeled gun size to gun strength on paper ratio for the Macharius Vanquisher. +1 strength is not exactly 'colossal' in my books. Genuinely thought it might be good. (I mean it's got two huge long guns and that is a + for any tank in my books)

Chart topping sorta railroads you're army to a few options and a few armies and doctrines, but an average list in the hands of a lucky/good tactician might perform better than expected, and it's funner to paint and create and veiw an average list with some interesting models.