Are all Berzerkers World Eaters and and are all Plague Marines Death Guard?

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**ArcaneHorror**

AndrewGPaul wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:

My problem with the idea that all World Eaters become Berzerkers is that if that was the case, we would not have the new regular CSM models be able to have the WE mark and not simply adopt the Berzerker rules. While I do know that fluff and table rules often don't sync, this fact does leave open the possibility of WE that did not go full Berzerker and managed to maintain some level of control over themselves.

What's the "WE mark"? The Mark of Khorne? That's something granted to followers of Khorne, not to members of the World Eaters legion. Having all World Eaters be Berserkers in no way contradicts the idea of having non-berserker Chaos Space Marines dedicated to Khorne; they'd just be from other Legions or Chapters (for example, members of the Black Legion, Iron Warriors or Night Lords could follow Khorne, or there's the example of the Crimson Slaughter).

I was referring to the specific legion designation that a CSM unit has. I can designate my Marines as World Eaters even though they aren't Berzerkers. I understand that the Mark of Khorne is something different.

**godking**

Iracundus wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I think the only way for a Thousand Son to dodge the Rubric would be to be a Sorceror or just have left the Legion prior to Ahriman casting the spell.

I'm not sure about World Eaters and Death Guard though. I assume it's possible for a World Eater to commit suicide or somehow avoid turning into a Berserker but from what I know all the Death Guard were turned to Plague Marines.

Has it ever been explained why there aren't new flesh and blood Thousand Sons? Can't gene seed be harvested from Sorcerors and implanted into new recruits?

There are new Thousand sons one was a primary character in the story the Masters,bidding by matthew Farrer

**Andykp**

I remember reading somewhere that if a marine got so blessed as to become a plague marine it would have to pledge loyalty to the deathguard in order to survive the “blessings”. But was never keen on this idea, it was a few editions ago I think so has probably changed now or I’m misremembering.

**Formerly Wu**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
I was referring to the specific legion designation that a CSM unit has. I can designate my Marines as World Eaters even though they aren't Berzerkers. I understand that the Mark of Khorne is something different.

I think that might be an artifact of the current codex split and faction system, where DG/TS have their own unique unit structures while WE/EC have to be supported by the basic CSM codex structure. I'd expect that to change if/when new codices are released.

**Bharring**

godking wrote:
Iracundus wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I think the only way for a Thousand Son to dodge the Rubric would be to be a Sorceror or just have left the Legion prior to Ahriman casting the spell.

I'm not sure about World Eaters and Death Guard though. I assume it's possible for a World Eater to commit suicide or somehow avoid turning into a Berserker but from what I know all the Death Guard were turned to Plague Marines.

Has it ever been explained why there aren't new flesh and blood Thousand Sons? Can't gene seed be harvested from Sorcerors and implanted into new recruits?
There are new Thousand sons one was a primary character in the story the Masters,bidding by matthew Farrer

While not members of the Thousand Sons legion anymore, it's strongly implied that Blood Ravens came from Thousand Sons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Didn't Magnus's entire fleet avoid the Rubric, being sent away before Russ got to Prospero?

**Sgt. Cortez**

The Death Guard has not just turned into Plague Marines because of praying to Nurgle but because they were infected with the Destroyer Plague and their increased resilience made them survive.
So, if you had Renegades with Nurgle allegiance and because of that similar resilience to the Death Guard(like the Cleaved) they could turn into Plague Marines as well.
Or, you take a broader Definition of Plague Marine, then probably every Marine with Mark of Nurgle, some gifts but still conscious as to not simply count as Possessed or Spawn can be a Plague Marine.

**Nurglitch**

The Buried Dagger is interesting as it suddenly turns Calas Typhon from a Terran veteran to a Barbaran half-breed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's also worth noting that Thagus Daravek and Ilyaster were Death Guard too.

**Tresson**

queen_annes_revenge wrote:
No. They were the original legions to become those things, but now anyone could become one. Noise marines are also included in this (slaanesh) the outlier is rubric marines, who are only made up of thousands sons who succumbed to ahrimans spell.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Up until now, I had always assumed that there was pretty much a one to one connection between Khorne Berzerkers and World Eaters, with some exceptions scattered here and there. The first Berzerkers were born out the WE, the vast majority of them are still part of the legion. Also, various warbands like the Crimson Slaughter and the Brazen Beasts do not seem to have Berzerkers, at least not in the traditional sense. Then recently, I read that any Khornate Marine could become a Berzerker, as the definition referred to their behavior, not their specific legion, though I have yet to find any specific examples. As far as Plague Marines go, as far as I know they are almost exclusively Death Guard, as other prominent Nurglite groups such as The Purged do not exhibit the same amount of mutation found in the Death Guard. But theoretically, couldn't any Traitor Marine become a Plague Marine if they were dedicated enough to Nurgle and desired his 'gifts?' Do non-WE Berzerkers and non-DG Plague Marines exist in the official canon?

Uzas- night lord berserker.
Kroeger- iron warrior berserker
Dragan- plague marine of the Lords of silence. of unknown chapter origin. His previous chapter is unspecified and he can no longer remember his previous life except through random snatches of memory (which is covered in a short story)

Have we actually seen any non Emperor's Children noise marines in the lore?

**solkan**

The thing is that all of the marines from [choose Chapter] that didn't become [choose famous unit] are Boring Marines.

Boring Marines either get killed off for dramatic purposes, or separated and became generic Chaos Space Marines.

**Formosa**

Tresson wrote:
queen_annes_revenge wrote:
No. They were the original legions to become those things, but now anyone could become one. Noise marines are also included in this (slaanesh) the outlier is rubric marines, who are only made up of thousands sons who succumbed to ahrimans spell.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

ArcaneHorror wrote:
Up until now, I had always assumed that there was pretty much a one to one connection between Khorne Berzerkers and World Eaters, with some exceptions scattered here and there. The first Berzerkers were born out the WE, the vast majority of them are still part of the legion. Also, various warbands like the Crimson Slaughter and the Brazen Beasts do not seem to have Berzerkers, at least not in the traditional sense. Then recently, I read that any Khornate Marine could become a Berzerker, as the definition referred to their behavior, not their specific legion, though I have yet to find any specific examples. As far as Plague Marines go, as far as I know they are almost exclusively Death Guard, as other prominent Nurglite groups such as The Purged do not exhibit the same amount of mutation found in the Death Guard. But theoretically, couldn't any Traitor Marine become a Plague Marine if they were dedicated enough to Nurgle and desired his 'gifts?' Do non-WE Berzerkers and non-DG Plague Marines exist in the official canon?

Uzas- night lord berserker.
Kroeger- iron warrior berserker
Dragan- plague marine of the Lords of silence. of unknown chapter origin. His previous chapter is unspecified and he can no longer remember his previous life except through random snatches of memory (which is covered in a short story)

Have we actually seen any non Emperor's Children noise marines in the lore?

Yes, a fair amount to be fair, all are in some way dedicated to slaanesh from what i remember but only a handful are noise marines, in fact noise marines are rarer in the novels than run of the mill slaanesh emperors children, odd isnt it.

**Tastyfish**

Iracundus wrote:
Solar-powered_chainsword wrote:
-Not all World Eaters are Berzerkers and vice versa.
-Not all Plague Marines are Death Guard and vice versa
-Not all Noise Marines are Emperor's Children and vice versa
-All Rubric Marines are Thousand Sons, but not all Thousand Sons are Rubric Marines.

The only flesh and blood Thousand Sons that survived the Rubric were all Sorcerors. The question though is why there are no newly recruited flesh and blood Thousand Sons that are not Sorcerors.

Is the Rubric still in effect, effectively converting any such new recruit into a Rubric Marine or Sorceror (if they have enough psyker ability)?
Or have the Sorcerors now become so in thrall to Tzeentch that they would only ever consider candidates to become a new Sorceror?

Other way around probably, only Rubricae and Sorcerers are immune to the flesh change, so whilst you can implant new victims to make more spawn and Sorcerers, you could just make more spawn with magic and save your geneseed for promising magisters.

**queen_annes_revenge**

Noise marines need to be created by fabius bile as far as I'm aware. At least the first ones created during the heresy did. Not sure about the latest ones, whether slaanesh liked it and made it into a regular mutation or not. Il have a surf on lexicanum.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
OK maybe not. But fabius bile did alter emperors children using xenos and altered glands in eidolon to allow him to perform the sonic scream. Others were modified before the EC were fully corrupted and adapted the chaotic instruments of the weird orchestra into the noise marine weapons. Once they worshipped slaanesh they became gifted with the noise marine mutation, so yeah I guess any marine could become a noise marine, he just might have to seek out fabius or a suitably trained tech marine to get their sonic weapons.