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Interesting.

Ok so say theoreticaly we champion for jousting to be part of the Olympics..

What rules would be used?

Jousting was prominent throughout the 14-16th centuries and Armor styles and lances would have changed throughout.

Would it be a free for al or a unified armour style should be adopted? (bit like kendo)

1 point for hit and 2 points for shield strike sounds about right.
I do think unhorsing your opponent should be max points though.

 Argive wrote:
Interesting.

Ok so say theoreticaly we champion for jousting to be part of the Olympics..

What rules would be used?

Jousting was prominent throughout the 14-16th centuries and Armor styles and lances would have changed throughout.

Would it be a free for al or a unified armour style should be adopted? (bit like kendo)

1 point for hit and 2 points for shield strike sounds about right.
I do think unhorsing your opponent should be max points though.

I would imagine that for the sake of safety (or some modicum thereof) they would have uniform lances, and then ideally the rules for armor would be solid, but allow for various countries to put their own "traditional" stamp on things (I mean, yeah, those of us who study history know that at one point you basically had Milanese styling or Gothic styling and damn near everyone either went to Milan/Nuremburg for armor or at least copied the styling if ya couldnt go, but I don't think that that ought to preclude some level of creativity and national "stuff" being done to the armor).

I should think a simplified point scale could be used, especially if we took an eye to not "needing" VAR. . . ie, 1 point for a hit, 3 for breaking a stick on impact, and 5 for unhorsing. IMO, if you're looking to Olympics, if we bring in rules like "X points for a shield strike" well then you need to write rules for minimum and maximum dimensions for a "shield" (And indeed, what is considered a shield in the official rules), and unlike GW's "beer and pretzel" philosophy, the Olympics are all about gaming and in some cases "WAAC". As such, I think keeping things as being scorable by the naked eye limits the need for hyper specific rules and limits the necessity of technological aid in judging. Sure, VAR may still be useful if Knight A, at the end of a run sees his/her opponent has been given one point, he may signal an official and say, "Good sir, I doth protest thine ruling, as yon opponent did not hitherto striketh my personage", and then they could review video footage to confirm the protest.


Ohh, even better idea!!! Instead of pure points base. . . they could play "HORSE" (ya know, the childhood playground basketball game when you didnt have enough people to play full games). . . Then, each run is judged on the performance of that run. If Knight A strikes Knight B, cool. But on that same run Knight B broke his/her lance on the shoulder of their opponent, and thus wins the letter

Ignoring the fact this is getting nowhere near the Olympics - it'd be very unlikely that you'd get variations in armour or lances (or saddles or other horse-gear) beyond the completely cosmetic. Anything that confers any advantage wouldn't survive more than one outing. See, for example, the Speedo LZR swimsuits that were banned after Beijing. It'd be safety first, consistency second, character last. I think you'd probably lose plate entirely, sadly.

I think a massive amount of the character of jousting would be lost if it seriously wanted recognition by the FEI, let alone the Olympic Committee. Fencing isn't exactly full of national aesthetics, y'know?

I'd agree that any form of Olympic jousting would probably get sporterized to the point where it bears little resemblance to what people think, much the same as olympic fencing which these days is almost entirely "who can run across a mat and poke the other person first". That said, I would expect to see lots of new modern looking equipment, probably little or no metal plates but lots of reinforced polymers and shock absorption gear.

That said, for anyone interested in HEMA stuff, our typical scoring with Longsword is usually done under Longpoint rules, a hit to the extremeties is one point, body or head is two, with a body/head hit that controls the opponent's weapon scoring 4, and bouts going until one fighter has a 6pt or greater lead on their opponent or until time is called (usually 90 secs/match). Doublehits in our events are treated as either Closed (both fighters attempted right move but borked it) and the exchange is washed out, or Open (fighters did not attempt to defend and killed each other like idiots) and are treated as a Foul for both sides.

 Vaktathi wrote:
I'd agree that any form of Olympic jousting would probably get sporterized to the point where it bears little resemblance to what people think, much the same as olympic fencing which these days is almost entirely "who can run across a mat and poke the other person first". That said, I would expect to see lots of new modern looking equipment, probably little or no metal plates but lots of reinforced polymers and shock absorption gear.

That said, for anyone interested in HEMA stuff, our typical scoring with Longsword is usually done under Longpoint rules, a hit to the extremeties is one point, body or head is two, with a body/head hit that controls the opponent's weapon scoring 4, and bouts going until one fighter has a 6pt or greater lead on their opponent or until time is called (usually 90 secs/match). Doublehits in our events are treated as either Closed (both fighters attempted right move but borked it) and the exchange is washed out, or Open (fighters did not attempt to defend and killed each other like idiots) and are treated as a Foul for both sides.

Indeed. I would think they'd look more like a cross between motocross and football and some sort of weird bendy or collapsible stick. .

Aye....though that could be fun in its own way

Awwwh why not.. It could happen!!! Don't take my dreams away bruh!! hahaha

Buuuut lets entertain the thought a bit more! I have come across underwater hockey as a contender sport whilst training in sports therapy and that has a surprising big following. So why not jousting?

If it did happen, why plate would be out?
I think you'd have to standardise the armour thickness minimum and make it a specific grade of steel etc. Shield size. Wonder if carbon fibre/ titanium alloys armour could be a thing..

I mean modern javelins are steel/metal tipped and are dangerous AF.

There's a few reasons why metal plate armor would probably be out. In terms of safety, impact resistant polymer with some padding underneath will probably work better in terms of preventing injury, particularly as it will flex back while steel plate can be caved, furthering injury and making it harder to remove. Steel plate is also heavy, if people can get protection from lighter polymers, that's what theyll move to. If production volume is high enough, steel rapidly becomes more expensive than alternatives. Steel also requires more maintenance, sweat/dirt/blood/water, etc can cause wear much faster than on polymer, etc.

In HEMA, some people wear elements of steel armor (usually only hands/head) but mostly people stick to thick leather, plastic, and padded protection largely for these reasons.

Its possible we would see advanced alloys, but it would probably not be for broad plates but rather specific parts/elements.

You need only look at fencing to see what Jousting would end up with.

Electronic scoring plates, collapsible shafts, padded and plastic "suits", probably a safety guide-wire system over the competitors which would reduce falling injuries etc. It'd be hugely sporterized. I wouldn't mind personally if it meant seeing it. Of course it would also be considered too dangerous for horses and there would be a massive outcry if/when a horse was injured during the rounds. Hell they might even replace horses with automatic systems to simulate horses, etc.

I just had an image of people dressed in Ludacris carbon fibre/cardboard armour riding broom stick horses and running at each other... ha.... haha...

Yeah best to keep it to its current format. Olympics would absolutely devolve it into something not worth watching.

So what's the biggest jousting circuit currently ?
Is there a league? World Championship?

 Elbows wrote:
You need only look at fencing to see what Jousting would end up with.

Electronic scoring plates, collapsible shafts, padded and plastic "suits", probably a safety guide-wire system over the competitors which would reduce falling injuries etc. It'd be hugely sporterized. I wouldn't mind personally if it meant seeing it. Of course it would also be considered too dangerous for horses and there would be a massive outcry if/when a horse was injured during the rounds. Hell they might even replace horses with automatic systems to simulate horses, etc.

So. . . let's save a few horses and turn this thing into a proper Youtube worthy sport. . . Replace the horses with 250cc dirtbikes

 Vaktathi wrote:
There's a few reasons why metal plate armor would probably be out. In terms of safety, impact resistant polymer with some padding underneath will probably work better in terms of preventing injury, particularly as it will flex back while steel plate can be caved, furthering injury and making it harder to remove. Steel plate is also heavy, if people can get protection from lighter polymers, that's what theyll move to.

Plate armor does have padding. You always wear it with an thick layer of cloth padding underneath. Its quite effective at absorbing blows, because steel does flex(that's the main difference between steel and iron). Enough that its basically immune to penetration from anything other than a war lance. "Caving" in a breast plate is also largely impossible, though that is a reason they are always bowed out 6 or so inches away from your chest. Hardened high quality steel is very very strong, it flexes and returns to its previous shape(to an extent).

It certainly would not be beaten for protection by any modern materials in the context of a joust or any other HEMA. The only benefit would be weight, which is a big one, but cost is something you have the wrong idea about.

If production volume is high enough, steel rapidly becomes more expensive than alternatives. Steel also requires more maintenance, sweat/dirt/blood/water, etc can cause wear much faster than on polymer, etc.

The thing with a polymer set of armor is that when it breaks, and it will break, you can't fix it right away. If a steel breastplate gets some dents in it, it can be salvaged and repaired to good as new. A polymer suit will not be able to be repaired, even if it is cheaper to buy it in the first place. The polymer will be shattered and you'd need to send it back to the manufacturer, so for competition you'd need at least a half dozen suits. Steel armor can be repaired by the participants or any of their assistants, as most of these people also dabble in smithing or have someone with them who does.

Polymer would need to be disposable levels of cost to be a cost-effective replacement for steel plate.

I'm mainly basing most of these off my experience with HEMA gear, which may or may not be a great analogue for Jousting. With regards to caving I was thinking more the lighter areas, you're right in that a breastplate likely would not, but ive seen steel gauntlets cave and get peoples fingers stuck inside with severe blows from a blunt longsword (which is why I personally use these crab-hand gloves instead for HEMA).

As for armor breaking, I'm assuming if is bad enough for good modern polymers to break, it'd do something bad enough to metal that even if repairable, it's probably done for the duration of that particular competition, though I could be wrong on thay count. More importantly, if its good enough for modern polymers to break, it was probably good enough to send you to the hospital no matter what you were wearing, at least in my experience.

With Jousting, it also occurred to me, its possible we could see something akin to bullet proof vests, where basically plates are treated as disposable and replaced after each hit, and made from stuff intended to break as part of its impact absorption.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
You need only look at fencing to see what Jousting would end up with.

Electronic scoring plates, collapsible shafts, padded and plastic "suits", probably a safety guide-wire system over the competitors which would reduce falling injuries etc. It'd be hugely sporterized. I wouldn't mind personally if it meant seeing it. Of course it would also be considered too dangerous for horses and there would be a massive outcry if/when a horse was injured during the rounds. Hell they might even replace horses with automatic systems to simulate horses, etc.

So. . . let's save a few horses and turn this thing into a proper Youtube worthy sport. . . Replace the horses with 250cc dirtbikes

Way ahead of you. I used to do that about 5 decades ago. Full dirt back racing makes excellent armor when bike jousting. Wack!

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
You need only look at fencing to see what Jousting would end up with.

Electronic scoring plates, collapsible shafts, padded and plastic "suits", probably a safety guide-wire system over the competitors which would reduce falling injuries etc. It'd be hugely sporterized. I wouldn't mind personally if it meant seeing it. Of course it would also be considered too dangerous for horses and there would be a massive outcry if/when a horse was injured during the rounds. Hell they might even replace horses with automatic systems to simulate horses, etc.

So. . . let's save a few horses and turn this thing into a proper Youtube worthy sport. . . Replace the horses with 250cc dirtbikes

I was thinking two mechanical bull type things on opposing tracks that are then steam catapulted at each other.

Now THIS would actually get me to watch the Olympics.